Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Thoke » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:00 pm

A few more inspections... So Faq is southeast from Goodminton the City. I don't know if this was mentioned before.

I suspect that the unforeseen force that destroyed Goodminton might have some importance later on... Maybe it's an another trick Haffaton has up on it's sleeves, it could even be the reason why Haffaton is so successfull, if that force really is good to hide and sack unsuspecting enemy cities. Or it may be Charlie, or an Arkentool at work... Or something else.
I wonder what Wanda will think when she hears about (Jillian) razing Goodminton the City. If that had any sentimental value to her.
Thoke
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:26 pm

Postby Frosted » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:13 pm

I love this update.
I love Predictamancers.
Delphie post-mortem validation is where it's at.
Frosted
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:33 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby OvaltinePatrol » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:28 pm

joosy wrote:Heh “Why don’t you have a seat over there?” Chris Hansen would be proud :)


Oh lord...Pedal Bear.
OvaltinePatrol
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:54 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby multilis » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:40 pm

Jillian has no reason to trust the note or Wanda is not another ploy of enemy just like the poisoned food before. So makes sense *not* to contact the enemy Wanda who tried to break her. Meanwhile Wanda probably helped her escape as part of following father's last wish. Wanda is probably also going to be part of reason Jillian's plan will succeed, uncroaked army backstab.

Jillian's plan is not insane imo in this case, a decapitation strike is one of most likely ways to win such a lopsided situation. Alternative plan of trying to build up another small army and find a capital location... may run out of funds before success, and even if success is extremely vulnerable to someone finding you and taking out your small army.
multilis
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby 0beron » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:53 pm

I have no idea why people are so pissed off at Delphi and calling her crap. She made a perfect prediction! It doesn't hinge on every other side being inept, it hinges on PREDICTAMANCY. Are you all ignoring the crucial nature of that element? She doesn't have to "bet" on certain things happening, she KNOWS they'll happen.

So far, Predictamancy and Fate seem to amount to this: The are certain fixed points or eventualities that must and will occur. Variables such as precise time and location may be mutable, but Predictions have never failed to happen yet. So while Delphi may not know what transpires between the Fall of Goodminton and the arrival of Jillian, she does know with certainty that Jillian will come.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3151
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby effataigus » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:53 pm

Thoke wrote:I suspect that the unforeseen force that destroyed Goodminton might have some importance later on... Maybe it's an another trick Haffaton has up on it's sleeves, it could even be the reason why Haffaton is so successfull, if that force really is good to hide and sack unsuspecting enemy cities. Or it may be Charlie, or an Arkentool at work... Or something else.
I wonder what Wanda will think when she hears about (Jillian) razing Goodminton the City. If that had any sentimental value to her.

As a card carrying member of the "Charlie behind every bush" club, I approve of this speculation. Flying units appearing as if from nowhere in a capital strike sounds like his MO to me. I'm just curious, if he was there, whether he was getting paid to be.
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
User avatar
effataigus
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby effataigus » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:59 pm

0beron wrote:I have no idea why people are so pissed off at Delphi and calling her crap. She made a perfect prediction! It doesn't hinge on every other side being inept, it hinges on PREDICTAMANCY. Are you all ignoring the crucial nature of that element? She doesn't have to "bet" on certain things happening, she KNOWS they'll happen.

So far, Predictamancy and Fate seem to amount to this: The are certain fixed points or eventualities that must and will occur. Variables such as precise time and location may be mutable, but Predictions have never failed to happen yet. So while Delphi may not know what transpires between the Fall of Goodminton and the arrival of Jillian, she does know with certainty that Jillian will come.


She got this prediction right but made a terrible case of convincing Jillian to do what she had suggested... given that the outcome is fixed, the only reason for leaving the note was to get JIllian to choose the "easy way." Mission failed... Delphine learned nothing from trying to work with Wanda.

That's my take on the argument anyway... Not that I buy it fully. Maybe she's working an angle that requires Jillian to sack Haffaton or even just wants revenge. Perhaps this was the only way she could ensure Jillian would act with the maximum recklessness.

To be fair though... predictamancers are no more arrogant than thinkamancers, and at least they have a reason to be!
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
User avatar
effataigus
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby 0beron » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:06 pm

effataigus wrote:[Delphi was right, but botched the delivery]

Perhaps....however most Predictamancers seem to be in a bit of a trap. Based on Delphi's experience in particular, it makes sense that she follow her predictions blindly. Her prediction may have included the note, so she left it as is rather than thinking of something more clever. So I kinda doubt that she had a long term "plan" beyond the note, she just did what she was shown in order to get Wanda's fate back on track.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3151
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby sheepfly » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:31 pm

Angband wrote:Will Wanda's uncroaked (stationed all over Haffaton's poorly defended empire) turn with her? If they do, that would be a pretty effective way to blow up Haffaton.


You might say it would be... Plants vs. Zombies. :lol:
What would YOU say if you'd won with strength and duty and honor every time when suddenly a veiled flying zero-upkeep 100% recycled army of former friends showed up to croak you with massive numbers and bonuses and skulls with little pink flowers?

Yeah..
User avatar
sheepfly
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:42 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Magothys » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:11 pm

My memory is foggy; did Faq have a turnamancer? If they didn't, I see a possible grammar mistake in the update.

1. Immediately hire a Turnamancer from the Magic Kingdom. Use them to accelerate production for six turns.
Magothys
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:49 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby 0beron » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:16 pm

FAQ does not have a Turnamancer, but what you underlined is correct. "Them" is the proper pronoun for an individual when the gender is unspecified.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3151
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Whispri » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:07 pm

Vorteks wrote:Well, we know that FAQ falls to Gobwin Knob, not Haffaton. And Wanda is with them at the time, implying capture. So my first guess is that FAQ captures Haffaton, razes it, and then returns to their previous location. It seems unlikely to me that FAQ could successfully lead a military strike on Haffaton, capture Wanda, and then NOT defeat Haffaton without Haffaton destroying them later in retaliation.

Then again, Rob's certain thrown us some delightful surprises so far.

We know how things will be at the start of Book One. But how that situation is reached... well all we've really got to go on is a few stories and some guess work. Here's the question though, what, exactly, is Wanda supposed to transition to? It's can't be Faq I would think, as that's the 'everything' Gillian, Jill, or whatever her name is risks by fighting. Gobwin Knob doesn't exist at this point. Mebbe Gill hasn't done her job yet by the time of the Siege of Spacerock? She did get Ansom croaked by turning on Wanda after all.

ftl wrote:Man, predictamancers are arrogant.

Really, Delphie? Why would she think for even one second that whoever found the note would believe it and would follow the instructions?

I completely don't blame Jillian for ignoring it entirely. For all she knows it could be another Haffaton trap.

Delphie is extremely arrogant, or was rather, but she's far outstriped by Gillian. Note, her own Side has a Predictamancer she could try double checking this with. Instead she's trying to conquer a Side that may be completely immune to attack thanks to their Florist.

As far as traps go, the greater danger I'd say is that Haffaton discovered the note when they captured the City. And that would mean? That they let G. Zamussles get away with everything she's accomplished since her escape simply because they knew she was Fated to take this City. Prediction fulfilled? Off come the gloves.

atalex wrote:
Delphie's almost as aggravating, blaming Wanda for the results of her lies, if only she'd been straight with people... And if only Fate would try hooking Wanda up with a girl who isn't a complete monster.

Even from the grave, Delphie is terrible predictomancer, able to see the future with great clarity, but completely uncapable of comprehending how people will react to her predictions. Who could possibly be so weak-willed as to accept the idea that one's only reason for existing is to fulfill some stupid prophecy?

Someone who's been told as much by her Side's Predictamancer? Gilly was created because of Marie's reaction to seeing Wanda for the first time and she knows it. She's worse at being a Chief Warlord than Delphie was at helping her Side.

No one in particular wrote:Huh? Jillian was thinking of attacking Haffaton way back before WRECD was even formed. (“Let’s take this whole show on the road,” she said. “As Chief Warlord, I say we go to war with Haffaton, and win.”–IPTSF 33) The note has nothing to do with it.

And if anything, her following through on an idea she's had for months, that she's been in favor of the whole time and has argued for... kind of is the opposite of capricious. I mean, aside from being kind of indecisive when it comes to love, Jillian is quite consistent (Attack attack attack!!!).

Tiny? Maybe, but it would be 3 cities worth of soldiers, a crap-ton of gwiffons, and EIGHT casters. Against the "woefully underdefended capital" (IPTSF 44)

Slow? Why would they be slow? Everyone would be on gwiffons and megalogwiffs. They'd have practically no move-penalty compared to Haffaton's ground forces. They'd be blazing with move!

Visible? Wait, WHAT? Visible? With the Lookamancy/Predictamancy/Foolamancy combo they've been practicing since Orwell/Marie/Jack were popped? They wouldn't be seen, period.

Vulnerable? Maybe... but Haffaton is just as vulnerable. When Jillian made her escape, she found out "... that this city was woefully undefended, for instance. The whole area around it was practically empty". Each time we've seen a Haffaton city, it's been practically deserted, and Jillian's been able to overpower it if she has ANY help at all.

Idiotic and capricous is a fair comment. Oh sure, the Gillster may be sticking like a glue to the stupid plan she invented on a whim after getting the lunatic idea that Croakamancy is a defensive weapon, but she decided to try ordering this attack because she was handed a doom-laden Prediction that was actually more hopeful than the doom-laden Predicition she'd been given already. Small wonder Marie thinks Faq is booped.

Tiny equals a few dozen heavy fliers at most, almost certainly smaller than the force the Gillster will take to Spacerock. Slow means a trip that will take twenty odd turns, at a minimum. Visible, well any Warlord or scout they fly over will have dozens of chances to pierce the veil, if not hundreds. Vulnerable, she means to leave their Cities empty (allowing for easy decapitation) and any interception force will only have to shoot the King and the Princess. Plus, well Haffaton has magic too, a handful of visible Units in the Capital may well be enough if the Spells on the Tower are sufficiently nasty, nevermind a certain Florist.

One last thing, your point about Haffaton's Cities... we've seen three since Goodminton fell. The first was a trap, the last was fated to fall, the Capital could easily be one of those occasions where the guards have to ignore a bunch of idiots stumbling past them saying 'shush' in order for the plan to work. Come into my parlour and all that, as at Kiloton.

effataigus wrote:As a card carrying member of the "Charlie behind every bush" club, I approve of this speculation. Flying units appearing as if from nowhere in a capital strike sounds like his MO to me. I'm just curious, if he was there, whether he was getting paid to be.

What would he gain from such an attack? When has he ever done so? Did he even exist back then?

Now Faq? Their whole thing is secretive airstrikes and they have a motive, the same motive behind Gillian's unprovoked attacks on Haffaton. The Lady Wanda Firebaugh, the girl destined to end them, was of Goodminton. If you're planning to fight Fate, destroying Goodminton woulld be the obvious way to do so.
Whispri
YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby technojunkie » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:01 pm

*deleted* That will teach me to re-read the page before commenting...

On a more intelligent note... Assuming Jillian does contact wanda; Who want's to bet the note says "easy way or hard way?"
Last edited by technojunkie on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
technojunkie
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:36 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby cheeseaholic » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:05 pm

Whispri wrote:Tiny equals a few dozen heavy fliers at most, almost certainly smaller than the force the Gillster will take to Spacerock. Slow means a trip that will take twenty odd turns, at a minimum. Visible, well any Warlord or scout they fly over will have dozens of chances to pierce the veil, if not hundreds. Vulnerable, she means to leave their Cities empty (allowing for easy decapitation) and any interception force will only have to shoot the King and the Princess. Plus, well Haffaton has magic too, a handful of visible Units in the Capital may well be enough if the Spells on the Tower are sufficiently nasty, nevermind a certain Florist.


Considering they're fated to fall I'd call this a feature not a bug. Let someone take the deserted capital. Everyone max out your purse and turn all schmuckers into gems and hope it happens. Better than letting fate take its course and losing the capital some other time when it's full of people and you got nowhere to go. If you can't defeat fate, use it. Of course I doubt that Jillian thought that far ahead.
cheeseaholic
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby FlaminCows » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:09 pm

It should be pointed out that, so far at least, not everybody Jillian knows and loves has died. Jack is still alive, as is Marie. Additionally, Marie's Prediction is just as firm as Delphie's; Jillian already knows that Banhammer is Fated to die and that Faq is Fated to fall. So, if Jillian were to follow Delphie's advice and join Wanda right away, Faq would still fall. With that in mind, Jillian not giving a hoot about Delphie's prediction makes perfect sense: she does not have much to gain by following the "easy way" here. Her side is damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't.
FlaminCows
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:46 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:17 pm

Now that the City of Goodminton is razed, is it possible that the site is now GK? I haven't been following the speculation closely enough to know if its position makes sense or not.
WaterMonkey314
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:40 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby bladestorm » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:37 pm

WaterMonkey314 wrote:Now that the City of Goodminton is razed, is it possible that the site is now GK? I haven't been following the speculation closely enough to know if its position makes sense or not.

Not unless you completely change the location, terrain type, and eliminate one of the roads. GK only has one road leading to it, and was built over an inactive volcano surrounded by relatively flat terrain of mostly plains and forest (As was demonstrated by the first 100 episodes of tBfGK). Goodminton is in mountainous terrain, and has two roads leading to it. No mention of the volcano.

It may be possible that the area that holds GK, Jetstone, and Unaroyal (or whatever will become those cities/Sides) lies further down the conquest path of Haffaton and haven't been attacked yet.

We are missing a lot of information, mainly a detailed map and an accurate timeline, to make that determination.

From what little I know about the map, GK should be on the other side of Faq from Goodminton.
bladestorm
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:11 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Housellama » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:26 pm

0beron wrote:I have no idea why people are so pissed off at Delphi and calling her crap. She made a perfect prediction! It doesn't hinge on every other side being inept, it hinges on PREDICTAMANCY. Are you all ignoring the crucial nature of that element? She doesn't have to "bet" on certain things happening, she KNOWS they'll happen.

So far, Predictamancy and Fate seem to amount to this: The are certain fixed points or eventualities that must and will occur. Variables such as precise time and location may be mutable, but Predictions have never failed to happen yet. So while Delphi may not know what transpires between the Fall of Goodminton and the arrival of Jillian, she does know with certainty that Jillian will come.


This. We've had the Fate vs Free Will argument before. We know two things from this Prediction. 1. Delphi had a pretty good idea who would find the hat and where. 2. That the Prediction in question had more to do with Wanda than Jillian. Everything else is up for grabs, considering how untrustworthy Predictamancers have proven to be. Ironic, that.

Delphi was forced into the mold that Fate had cast, to her extreme and eventually fatal detriment. She's not trying to make Fate happen, she's trying to help another human being avoid pain, not to mention all the collateral damage that occurs. It occurs to me that Delphi might have been extremely bitter by the time she wrote that note. She knows that her death was nothing but collateral damage caused by the Fate of someone else. She had to die because Wanda chose to fight the inevitable, and sealed Delphi's Fate, and that of her entire Side, because of it.

The Predictamancy we have seen thus far sees/Predicts specific events. They seem to have some context about these events, but it's tunnel vision in all other ways. Delphi knows that Something Involving Jillian and Wanda Is Going To Happen. The rest is speculation. Her advice (the "use the hat to message Wanda", etc.) I would argue isn't based on a specific Prediction, but a simple understanding of Fate, and hard experience at the hands of Wanda's decisions. Perhaps Delphi was simply attempting to be kind and merciful. "It's going to happen anyway, might as well do it right now. If you don't, Fate will make it happen eventually, no matter what." The fact that it backfired isn't her fault. She's a Predictamancer, not a psychologist.
"All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu, Chapter 1, Line 18, The Art of War

"The principle of strategy is to know ten thousand things by having one thing." - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Earth, Go Rin No Sho
User avatar
Housellama
Tool + YOTD + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 499
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby StClair » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:57 pm

Housellama wrote: "It's going to happen anyway, might as well do it right now. If you don't, Fate will make it happen eventually, no matter what." The fact that it backfired isn't her fault. She's a Predictamancer, not a psychologist.


I suspect that this is actually a rather common perspective among Predictamancers, and leads to them being isolated, distrusted, etc etc. (Very few, in Erf or Stupid world, like to be told uncomfortable truths - especially not that their free will is only an illusion.) That others (casters of other disciplines, royals, et al) don't understand or accept it isn't their fault, and in some sense irrelevant - whatever the others think or believe, things will play out, according to Fate. And I must say, so far at least the evidence does seem to be on their side.

Consider this paradox, then: if Parson ends the dominion of Fate over the world by breaking it, that is an action - the last action - that was Fated to happen. Fate brings about its own end.
StClair
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:36 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby cheeseaholic » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:11 pm

StClair wrote:Consider this paradox, then: if Parson ends the dominion of Fate over the world by breaking it, that is an action - the last action - that was Fated to happen. Fate brings about its own end.


Firstly that isn't a paradox, secondly even if Parson destroys fate that doesn't mean that he was fated to do so, and thirdly Erfworld's fate may not affect Parson.
cheeseaholic
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:31 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests