Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 031

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 031

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:39 pm

Kreistor wrote:Jillian grabbed Betsy's arm and smashed it down on the table. The room heard the crack of bones as her forearm shattered. Betsy screamed in pain....Assume the world is real. You'll live longer.

At which point Jack does the same thing to Jillian - only the wounds vanish with a wave of his hand afterwards, just as Betsy's would have if a healmancer took care of it. If Foolamancy can actually fool all 5 senses - if it can inflict pain and create the appearance of wounds - your argument falls apart.

Each 'mancer's perception of reality is colored by their discipline. Maggie perceives G-strings. Monemancers see debt. Luckamancers see dice. This seems to suggest a world that either has no grand unified magical theory, or a world in which the perceptions actually influence and even create reality. The philosophical assumptions of what is real on Earth may not equally apply to Erfworld.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 031

Postby Balerion » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:24 pm

Was trying to write a longer post, but I am having trouble phrasing the whole idea.

Out of fairness to Betsy, she likely has a sense similar to Wanda with corpses. What if she can essentially "see through" the damage on them to the real core of the unit beneath? And then can remove that damage with a thought? It would start getting hard to consider damage as something real.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 031

Postby Zeku » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:26 am

I'm not understanding why this is profound.

Healing (and turn healing) in Erf works the same way it does in the real world. Invariable, and purely logical processes. The real question is whether foolamancy itself alters the world, or the perception of the world. Either way, the unit's perception, and the real status of the unit, have no effect on each other. If the question is supposed to be 'is foolamancy's power limitless?' I would say yes, but only the power to fool. After all, look at what's happening in the real world. It's actually illegal to tell the truth in many civilized countries. Limitless power, but still ultimately subject to reality.

I've been thinking recently about Banhammer's name, and wondering how important that is supposed to be. I suppose we'll learn soon enough, when a pikeman gains the arkenhammer.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 031

Postby Kreistor » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:47 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
Kreistor wrote:Jillian grabbed Betsy's arm and smashed it down on the table. The room heard the crack of bones as her forearm shattered. Betsy screamed in pain....Assume the world is real. You'll live longer.

At which point Jack does the same thing to Jillian - only the wounds vanish with a wave of his hand afterwards, just as Betsy's would have if a healmancer took care of it. If Foolamancy can actually fool all 5 senses - if it can inflict pain and create the appearance of wounds - your argument falls apart.


Foolamancy fools only sight and sound. it fails completely on touch, which means it also fails on taste which requires physical contact. Since Sight and sound are entirely external and affects everyone on the enemy Side, it is a hologram, not a mentally invasive magic. It takes Thinkamancy to affect senses of individuals.

As such, Jack cannot create pain, which requires touch contact.

Ergo, it is NOT Foolamancy. You might find a case with Thinkamancy, but that has severe restrictions that should also preclude creating physical pain.

You did not defeat any part of my argument.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 031

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:18 pm

MarbitChow wrote:If Foolamancy can actually fool all 5 senses - if it can inflict pain and create the appearance of wounds - your argument falls apart.

Kreistor wrote:Foolamancy fools only sight and sound. ... You did not defeat any part of my argument.

You're stating as categorical fact something that has not been proven. Certainly, the instances of Foolamancy we've seen so far only fool sight and sound, but I don't remember anywhere that proved that Foolamancy couldn't fool other senses. Jack's hypothetical seems to imply that it could, and no one at the table contradicted him. If Foolamancy had such as simple, known limitation, isn't it likely that at least one of the other casters at the table would be aware of it?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 031

Postby Lamech » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:47 pm

Kreistor wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:
Kreistor wrote:Jillian grabbed Betsy's arm and smashed it down on the table. The room heard the crack of bones as her forearm shattered. Betsy screamed in pain....Assume the world is real. You'll live longer.

At which point Jack does the same thing to Jillian - only the wounds vanish with a wave of his hand afterwards, just as Betsy's would have if a healmancer took care of it. If Foolamancy can actually fool all 5 senses - if it can inflict pain and create the appearance of wounds - your argument falls apart.


Foolamancy fools only sight and sound. it fails completely on touch, which means it also fails on taste which requires physical contact. Since Sight and sound are entirely external and affects everyone on the enemy Side, it is a hologram, not a mentally invasive magic. It takes Thinkamancy to affect senses of individuals.

As such, Jack cannot create pain, which requires touch contact.

Ergo, it is NOT Foolamancy. You might find a case with Thinkamancy, but that has severe restrictions that should also preclude creating physical pain.

You did not defeat any part of my argument.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F114.jpg

Foolamancy can very clearly create touch.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 031

Postby Kreistor » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:57 am

Really, Lamech? You can tell me exactly what is happening in each one of those panels?

All you get from that panel is a "maybe". We do not know that Jillian did not cut the real dwagon in that scene. The gwiffon in the next panel may be part of the Foolamancy. Jillian did not actually kill it (the possibly illusionary gwiffon does, created to inspire her to stop attacking a dead dwagon that is actually only wounded), but we never see the entire dwagon after the sword hit (only the neck forward in the next panels) and so do not know she did not damage it. We don't know when or where the foolamancy starts and ends (partially because we never get a Spell word, since Foolamancy having a spell word the target can hear kinda defeats teh purpose), and can draw zero conclusions about the entire event.

And given panel 5 in the next strip shows a hand passing through the same Foolamancy dwagon? I find it hard to believe that the same creation started as fooling touch but later failed to resist touch. I expect some consistency in spells, not "magic bullets" that act two different ways to the same event. In other words, the spell needs to start after Jillian's sword hit, and the gwiffon biting the dwagon has to be false in order to have an internally consistent spell.

Maybe you can find some kind of reference in Stanley's discussions in the Summer Update about what happened, but I don't have the time to hunt through them all today.

"You're stating as categorical fact something that has not been proven."

Show me an inconsistency. Lamech came close, but that panel has been debated over and over and no one has yet been able to demonstrate where the Foolamancy starts and ends. We know it has not begun before the 'Hammer creates a walnut, and is in place before the gwiffon chomps down, but where it precisely starts is a mystery.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 031

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:02 pm

Kreistor wrote:Foolamancy fools only sight and sound. it fails completely on touch, which means it also fails on taste which requires physical contact. Since Sight and sound are entirely external and affects everyone on the enemy Side, it is a hologram, not a mentally invasive magic. It takes Thinkamancy to affect senses of individuals.


Your theory is elegant, but it is canon that Jack can manipulate the senses of an individual.

Episode 030 wrote:“How ‘bout all of this?” she remarked over her shoulder to Chip Tunage, whose megalo followed closely along at her flank.

“Hm?” he said.

“This welcome,” she said, indicating the tower.

Chip frowned a bit, looking oddly apologetic. “Well, you know,” he shrugged, “what’d you expect, right?”


Episode 030 wrote:It was just for your eyes, of course, Royal Highness
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