Summer Updates - 043

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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby nerf-dweller » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:04 pm

DevilDan wrote:We know for a fact that there are rules that do not apply to Parson. It's a perfectly valid argument, therefore.

If he is a caster, when did he become one? Was he always capable of magic, even on Earth? Did the spell someone turn him into a caster? In either case, the summoning spell was certainly ambitious!


I make this point long ago, but now it a good time to repeat it. Everyone on Erfworld pops into existence a fully mature "adult". They instinctively have their beginning skills and knowledge in their areas of expertise. And probably everyone has basic knowledge of how the physics of Erfworld works as well.

Parson is from "our" world. We "pop" out of the womb a helpless and needy infant. We have to learn how to do most everything. Janis said Parson is a Hippiemancer. If so then he has the potential to cast those types of spells. But he'll have to learn how to cast those spells. He'll probably even learn the basic laws of magic of Erfworld.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Paladinian » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:27 pm

nerf-dweller wrote:Parson is from "our" world. We "pop" out of the womb a helpless and needy infant. We have to learn how to do most everything. Janis said Parson is a Hippiemancer. If so then he has the potential to cast those types of spells. But he'll have to learn how to cast those spells. He'll probably even learn the basic laws of magic of Erfworld.


I've always inferred something close to that but more distinctly Erfworld-ish: that Parson surviving the trip through the Magic Kingdom portal was due to the fact that as far as Erfworld is concerned, he is not a "unit", he is a "spell".

Considering the fact that spells (or, at least, spell scrolls) can be moved from the Magic Kingdom to the individual sides (and, hypothetically, back the other way as well), and they exist corporeally, I think the best the Summoning Spell could do was shape itself into the closest form Wanda specified: that of Parson Gotti.

Eh, it's out there, but that's my pet theory. :)
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby raphfrk » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:43 pm

Paladinian wrote:Considering the fact that spells (or, at least, spell scrolls) can be moved from the Magic Kingdom to the individual sides (and, hypothetically, back the other way as well), and they exist corporeally, I think the best the Summoning Spell could do was shape itself into the closest form Wanda specified: that of Parson Gotti.


There is the comment from Sizemore in update 28, that it is unknown if stuffamancy creates new objects or summons them from somewhere else.

As someone pointed out in another thread, Parson could have been created by Wanda with memories of our world, rather than actually have come from our world.

I wonder if Sizemore's golems would be destroyed if they entered the portal. Also, I think magic can create units, so even if he is magically created, he could still be a unit.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Lord Kasavin » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:53 pm

I have to say the evidence for Parson actually being a Hippiemancer is very thin, Janis's one comment. Meanwhile, the evidence for him not being a hippiemancer is enormous.

1) In erfworld, there has never been any evidence that a unit is both a caster and a warlord. Plenty examples of "natural" magic, but no two in one deals present.

2) The original spell was suppose to summon a perfect warlord, not a caster.

3) There have been no example of Parson using magic.

4) He gave the troops in GK a +2 bonus. A small bonus, but a bonus that casters should have been unable to give as only Warlord's give bonuses.

5) A napkin with lunch said he was a level 2 Warlord.

Occam's razor would seem to lean towards Parson being a "warlord," albeit an alien one, and the Janis said a quick lie that put Parson under her authority.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby gaiaswill » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:07 pm

Paladinian wrote:I've always inferred something close to that but more distinctly Erfworld-ish: that Parson surviving the trip through the Magic Kingdom portal was due to the fact that as far as Erfworld is concerned, he is not a "unit", he is a "spell".
...
Eh, it's out there, but that's my pet theory. :)


Ha! I rather like that explanation. :D (Can a spell simultaneously be a warlord? :geek: )

I think that the SPW spell being customizable is a solid guess, that the criteria placed upon the caster/findamancer determine who gets summoned. Stanley was very specific in what he was looking for, and Parson does indeed match them (nearly) perfectly. Its rather amazing that Stanley was pretty good about demanding basic things like breathing, language and voluntary morale.

This implies that even though "perfect", it is completely possible that the ruler could have a largely unusable warlord if that ruler was more careless than Stanley. I find the idea of such an expensive hit-or-miss spell to be hilarious. "Be careful what you wish for," indeed. :lol:
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby ftl » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:20 pm

Lord Kasavin wrote:I have to say the evidence for Parson actually being a Hippiemancer is very thin, Janis's one comment. Meanwhile, the evidence for him not being a hippiemancer is enormous.

2) The original spell was suppose to summon a perfect warlord, not a caster.

3) There have been no example of Parson using magic.

4) He gave the troops in GK a +2 bonus. A small bonus, but a bonus that casters should have been unable to give as only Warlord's give bonuses.

5) A napkin with lunch said he was a level 2 Warlord.

Occam's razor would seem to lean towards Parson being a "warlord," albeit an alien one, and the Janis said a quick lie that put Parson under her authority.


Well, you're assuming you can't be both a warlord and a caster. Which is perhaps a reasonable assumption. I don't think any of the people who think that he's a hippiemancer would claim that he's NOT a warlord. He certainly is. On the other hand, the assumption that non-casters can't enter the magic kingdom also has a reasonable basis.

Parson's definitely breaking at least some rule. He's either breaking the rule that Warlords can't be casters, or the rule that non-casters can't be in the Magic Kingdom. The question remains - which one of those rules is he breaking? Or, perhaps, which one of those rules isn't actually a rule?

So, with that in mind, the evidence comes down to:

1) We've never seen a Warlord be a Caster. (but does that mean it's not possible? or is it a rule Parson can break?)
2) We've never seen Parson cast spells. (but Parson doesn't know how to do a lot of things that, according to Erfworld, he should. He didn't know how to order Banana the Dwagon and had to ask Maggie and Sizemore.)
3) Parson successfully entered the magic kingdom without disbanding. (But maybe he's just special that way, or can't disband; maybe that's a rule Parson can break?)
4) Janis said he was a hippiemancer. (But she could have been lying to prevent him from being croaked.)

As far as I know, there's nothing else which really touches on the "is he a hippiemancer" question that's ever been mentioned in the comic or the summer updates.

I don't think the evidence is "enormous" either way. It's a question of which rule Parson is breaking, or which "rules" that we thought are rules aren't there.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby DevilDan » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:30 pm

How do you pronounce "SPW." anyway? "Spew?" Sounds appropriate.

I know that Parson can't cast spells and hasn't done so yet—as far as we know. That still leaves the question of the provenance of his putative powers: did he always have them, even on Earth? Or did the spell grant them? (If so, how else did the spell change him?)

That said, I don't see any reason why he couldn't be a closet caster... I just see very little to support the idea.

Regarding Occam's Razor: the "simplest" explanation is not necessarily the "obvious" one.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Tubal-Cain » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:45 pm

Mr. Goodwraith wrote:Rather, he counts as a hippiemancer because he is a "magical" unit fated to bring "peace and renewal" to Erf -- by either conquering the world, breaking the game, or otherwise making it impossible for anyone to wage war (at least in the sense that's traditional and conventional for Erf) any longer.

Wouldn't it be ironic if he does that by way of a Wierdomancy/Shockamancy combo to craft nukes and bring about MAD.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Justyn » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:57 pm

DevilDan wrote:Regarding Occam's Razor: the "simplest" explanation is not necessarily the "obvious" one.


Also: Occam's Razor says the theory that requires the least number of assumptions is the most likely to be correct. Not that it is correct.

Tubal-Cain wrote:Wouldn't it be ironic if he does that by way of a Wierdomancy/Shockamancy combo to craft nukes and bring about MAD.


How exactly, would that be ironic?

Remember: Rain on your wedding is only ironic if you are marrying a meteorologist, and they set the date.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Infidel » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:37 pm

Rain is always ironic on a wedding because it indicates the lucky couple are going to divorce in tears one day.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Tubal-Cain » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:50 pm

Justyn wrote:
Tubal-Cain wrote:Wouldn't it be ironic if he does that by way of a Wierdomancy/Shockamancy combo to craft nukes and bring about MAD.


How exactly, would that be ironic?


A Hippiemancer introducing Erfworld to WMDs.
EDIT: Offensive WMDs, if you consider the volcano one.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Anton Gaist » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:11 pm

This thread is already the longest by 4 pages and doesn't seem to slow down. Great xD.

As for whether or not Parson is a caster, I assume we'll get confirmation sooner or later. He's got to be giving it some thought, and will likely ask for the reason eventually.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Justyn » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:34 pm

Infidel wrote:Rain is always ironic on a wedding because it indicates the lucky couple are going to divorce in tears one day.


That's not "irony". That's called an "omen": rain on a wedding day is an omen that the marriage will not work out; it's not particularly ironic; what would be ironic is if you had all of the supposed omens of a failed marriage showing up, and then the couple goes on to have happy and successful lives together: irony needn't be negative after all.

A Hippiemancer introducing Erfworld to WMDs.

This is assuming that Parson is really a Hippiemancer; if he really is, than yes, this would indeed be irony. But we only have one person's word on the fact that Parson is a Hippiemancer, and it requires more assumptions to come to the conclusion that Parson really is a Hippiemancer, and that he just doesn't know how to use magic than it does to assume that Janis lied to protect someone. I'm not saying that he is or that he isn't, just that Janis says he is, and as Doctor Gregory House says: "Everybody lies".
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Daemonwelsh » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:50 pm

The irony of the WMD is shown back in his klog... I forget which one.
His WWED?
(what would ender do?)

The irony is that he discovered a way to do it once, and there is speculation that it might be possible again.

course this doesn't present much irony...

alas.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Infidel » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:14 pm

Justyn wrote:
Infidel wrote:Rain is always ironic on a wedding because it indicates the lucky couple are going to divorce in tears one day.


That's not "irony". That's called an "omen": rain on a wedding day is an omen that the marriage will not work out; it's not particularly ironic; what would be ironic is if you had all of the supposed omens of a failed marriage showing up, and then the couple goes on to have happy and successful lives together: irony needn't be negative after all.


Being an omen doesn't disqualify it as irony. The medium does not affect the message. You might as well argue that irony is only possible in speech and not in writing, or some such. It's an ironic omen. A day set aside to celebrate the beginning of love and happiness instead marks the coming end of both. The couple asks for the gods to bless their union, and instead the gods spit on them. Where is the lack of irony?
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby joosy » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:21 pm

so we have an abandoned capitol city ripe for the taking.

I wonder if the livery on the new city will be stars and stripes or black with pink flowers? Hmmm...
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby moose o death » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:13 am

the defnition of irony is being manhandled again.


i think you guys are using the alanis morriset version, not the dictionary one.

buffalo wings is irony
especially if you have the graphic of a buffalo with wings backing up an otherwise chicken based dish.

raining out your wedding is just badluck. unless your marrying someone called rain. then it's still bad luck with some irony for flavour.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby shneekeythelost » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:52 am

I'm still waiting for Parson to blow up at Ansom and Wanda for letting the booping secret out...
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Alex_Knight » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:13 am

Something occurs to me with all this talk about Parson and what he can or cannot do.

Maybe Erfworld's rules, like the "Disband if you don't follow the orders" incident, and the "Can't pass a hex" incident only affect him if he knows about it.

I mean, Stanley thought he should have disbanded because he didn't do the job....but that was because Parson didn't know he had to walk around.
When he tried to cross a hexside, he was wearing the glasses, so he could see the hexside. What if he didn't see it, so he wouldn't know when he was crossing?
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Tubal-Cain » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:24 am

Alex_Knight wrote:What if he didn't see it, so he wouldn't know when he was crossing?

The border resistance may still be present, and that would alert him to the boundaries.
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