Summer Update - 022

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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby Winged » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:32 am

I think we are all kinda overplaying Charlies strangth. Yes he figured out the volcano going off, but maybe it was not so much an unheard of thing to do as it was somthing no one had expected to ever happen. What are the odds that they would have the right types of casters (one non-native) at the proper level, in the right place, with a dead volcano, AND the grit to blow up your own fort. Don't forget Parson got lucky, he could have died in the lava too had things gone differently. Running into this situation would be kinda like bumping into three ex-pro basketball players in a pick up game at the gym and getting totaly owned, no ya never saw it coming, but after it has happened I bet you figure it out pretty fast.

On top of this his dish gives him epic level information gathering skills, it's what he does, maybe the only thing he personaly does, we just don't know.

Having said all of this I will say that no one will be buying the info any times soon. After all Charlie himself said he is overcharging what people would pay, and as of this moment GW is in no one's crosshairs.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby moose o death » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:42 am

a broken forum and a dozen lines of text chat and charlie/parson are killing the jillian updates for post count.

and october? i thought it was mid september? ah dang.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby warriortribble » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:20 am

So Charlie has rudimentary knowledge of the various Erf magics? OMG Charlie is Sizemore!
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby Lestat » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:11 am

I wonder if Charlie has spent any more calculations befor the bit of conversation we were shown, or maybe if he's planning to now. Because he is in position to find out just how strong GK has become. Unless it's possible to discover what units are in the garrison by lookamancy or some other means, Charlie could just ask how many archaons or other type units it would take to conquer the city, just to get a feel for how strong Parsons position is in any negotiations. I'm sure the number would give him pause and make him start wondering how it's possible the city became stronger 'after' the attack that ruined it. And that information would really be worth a lot.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby Lord Kasavin » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:47 am

Lestat wrote:I wonder if Charlie has spent any more calculations befor the bit of conversation we were shown, or maybe if he's planning to now. Because he is in position to find out just how strong GK has become. Unless it's possible to discover what units are in the garrison by lookamancy or some other means, Charlie could just ask how many archaons or other type units it would take to conquer the city, just to get a feel for how strong Parsons position is in any negotiations. I'm sure the number would give him pause and make him start wondering how it's possible the city became stronger 'after' the attack that ruined it. And that information would really be worth a lot.


Actually, there is an easy answer to a sudden surge in GK strength: Wanda survived and just uncroaked a ton of dead bodies (as was done during the battle). That, and cities can be rebuilt in a turn in erfworld and presumably Stanley's return with Artifact and Dwagons make the city much harder to take from air. The fact the units are actually decrypted and not decaying uncroacked won't become apparent until the Ansom begins to retake Stanley's cities.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby moose o death » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:05 am

that's the sum of it. the first city/s to fall will be taken off guard. once a side gets a thinkagram to someone they think may help with some actual intelligence in it....then GK is going to get alot of hackles up and might have an issue or two progressing further. depending on whether the army gets split up to cover more ground at once and try and really capitialise that "sneak attack"

they currently have the numbers in my opinion to take 2-3 cities at atime. re-re-take the cities stanley lost. if they start with the most recently taken the defences may be ill prepared fro such large forces. especially given the majority of their forces probably cont'd on to GK.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby Lestat » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:26 am

Lord Kasavin wrote:Actually, there is an easy answer to a sudden surge in GK strength: Wanda survived and just uncroaked a ton of dead bodies (as was done during the battle). That, and cities can be rebuilt in a turn in erfworld and presumably Stanley's return with Artifact and Dwagons make the city much harder to take from air. The fact the units are actually decrypted and not decaying uncroacked won't become apparent until the Ansom begins to retake Stanley's cities.


Didn't think about that, but I still think Charlie would get suspicious of the increase, and here is why: a croakmancer 'can mass uncroak all bodies in a hex, but they will be the weakest kind [...]', plus Wanda can now 'decrypt many unit types that previously could not be uncroaked'. So GK is not filled with weakest kind of uncroaked infantry, but pretty much the full power of the Crown Coalition, minus the siege destroyed before and probably the uncroaked Jetstone forces (I'm assuming they were totally anihilated and not decrypted), plus a whole bunch of archons from Charlie, and perhaps a bunch of warlords. We only know for sure about Ansom, but it is possible that Wanda decrypted all the warlords that were at GK. I think that would make a significant difference in power even to someone who is not a mathmancer and didn't know what exact number to expect from a town of low level uncroaked forces.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby Elessar » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:21 am

Lestat wrote:I wonder if Charlie has spent any more calculations befor the bit of conversation we were shown, or maybe if he's planning to now. Because he is in position to find out just how strong GK has become. Unless it's possible to discover what units are in the garrison by lookamancy or some other means, Charlie could just ask how many archaons or other type units it would take to conquer the city, just to get a feel for how strong Parsons position is in any negotiations. I'm sure the number would give him pause and make him start wondering how it's possible the city became stronger 'after' the attack that ruined it. And that information would really be worth a lot.


Why would Charlie care about Parson's strength? Charlie is a mercenary. He's not the type to keep long-term grudges... it's not good business.

Point is that Charlie can sit back and throw comments as the peanut gallery. When the next side hires him, he'll already have his employer's information and can choose to spend his own calculations as he sees fit.

Neutrality rules.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby mhangman » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:22 am

GK must hit the capitals if they want to conquer all the world. All small cities are just waste of the time. We dont know about charlis city or defence but he can be possiable next target. with his tool they can easly destroy other kingdoms. think parson with realms best information... what can he do? so much i guess :)

charli just trying to be friend with him. and get some info. with this way maybe he can be ally with stanley. hell give info free because he know what they can do.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby Lestat » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:22 am

Elessar wrote:
Why would Charlie care about Parson's strength? Charlie is a mercenary. He's not the type to keep long-term grudges... it's not good business.

Point is that Charlie can sit back and throw comments as the peanut gallery. When the next side hires him, he'll already have his employer's information and can choose to spend his own calculations as he sees fit.

Neutrality rules.


Why would Charlie care how Parson won? Aside from future dealings, it's because it's valuable information he can sell. Same thing about the strength of GK. Because he can sell the information for mucho schmuckero, or because he might want to take GK himself. He almost did it before, just to get Parson and his magic item, but Parson convinced him to wait. If Wanda hadn't attuned to the Arkenpliers GK would now be very weak: six dwagons, probably some uncroaked archons and other units (maybe uncroaked warlords), four casters, Parson and Stanley. If Charlie knew he could take GK, than he would just find someone to pay him for it and do it. Charlie strikes me as the type who likes to know everything. Rather than just wait for someone to call for his services, he would surely use the information he has to convince potential customers they want to hire him to do something he already feels like doing.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:31 pm

I don't think Charley will spend any calculations right now, although it would be very helpful for him now. Under normal circumstances Charley could guess GKS strength on his own; he probably knows how many dwagons Stanely had left, and he knows how many and what casters they have. Then he can assume that Wanda will create some uncroaked from what is left from the RCC. The later, he knows, will decay sooner or later. On the other side GK will produce new units and Sizemore will make more golems. So he can assume, that any information he will get now from Parson should be out of date in 20 turns. And that would be true if it weren't for the arkenpliers.
Chharly prolly speculates that he can sell the calculations later for a much higher price. Whenever GK attacks an enemy, Charley can tell them before a decisive battle what the odds are and what they need to win it. Or blackmail GK to pay him for not selling the information.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby raphfrk » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:36 pm

Lestat wrote:I wonder if Charlie has spent any more calculations befor the bit of conversation we were shown, or maybe if he's planning to now. Because he is in position to find out just how strong GK has become.


The calculations don't necessarily also include intelligence info. I wonder if Parson would be allowed answer "... and how many defending troops do you want me to assume when doing the calculation?" or if that would break the deal.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby DevilDan » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:53 pm

Lestat wrote:Why would Charlie care how Parson won? Aside from future dealings, it's because it's valuable information he can sell. Same thing about the strength of GK. Because he can sell the information for mucho schmuckero, or because he might want to take GK himself. ... If Charlie knew he could take GK, than he would just find someone to pay him for it and do it. Charlie strikes me as the type who likes to know everything. Rather than just wait for someone to call for his services, he would surely use the information he has to convince potential customers they want to hire him to do something he already feels like doing.


Precisely. Information is valuable. Charlie knows how to use it, sell it, and leverage it.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby Macadosche » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:50 pm

Something that just occurred to me...

This conversation implies that the eyebooks are back up on line, which would also seem to imply that Jack Snipe and Maggie are linked with a Lookamancer, right? With Misty dead and buried... who's the new caster?

(First post, btw - good to meet everyone :))
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby DevilDan » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:57 pm

Macadosche wrote:This conversation implies that the eyebooks are back up on line, which would also seem to imply that Jack Snipe and Maggie are linked with a Lookamancer, right? With Misty dead and buried... who's the new caster?


Nope. The EyeBooks did not need an active eyemancer troika to operate.

And, welcome.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby moose o death » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:05 pm

mhangman wrote:GK must hit the capitals if they want to conquer all the world. All small cities are just waste of the time.
your approaching this from the wrong angle. small cities each have their own construction queues, claiming another six cities in short order could allow GK to build forces at six times the rate, as well as allow for six times as many types of units.
mhangman wrote:We dont know about charlis city or defence but he can be possiable next target. with his tool they can easly destroy other kingdoms. think parson with realms best information... what can he do? so much i guess :)

charli just trying to be friend with him. and get some info. with this way maybe he can be ally with stanley. hell give info free because he know what they can do.


charlie wont be a target, the long term storyline as i see it is stanley, wanda, charlie and the rest of the attuned erfworlders will be allied to one another the reform erfworld. until an attuned erfworlder dies i will continue believing this
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby DevilDan » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:39 pm

moose o death wrote:
mhangman wrote:GK must hit the capitals if they want to conquer all the world. All small cities are just waste of the time.
your approaching this from the wrong angle. small cities each have their own construction queues, claiming another six cities in short order could allow GK to build forces at six times the rate, as well as allow for six times as many types of units.


We don't know enough about logistics to know how quickly units can be popped. If we know Stanley, he'll want dwagons, which seem to take a while to pop. Smaller cities will take longer to pop units, right? In addition, we don't know that every city will have special units or special units that are of particular interest to GK. Annexation for the purposes of pure expansion is a dangerous game.

In any case, the regular equations of popping units are fallen by the wayside thanks to decryption.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby vdragan » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:39 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:I'd propose that characters have to choose to use their powers, and they can only do so a limited number of times. Stanley chooses where and when to fight. The Arkenhammer and his dwagons give him a huge bonus ("+ roll") in a fight, but it's Stanley who gets to pick the fight. Stanley gets a limited number of fights per turn, based on move and hit points.

Likewise, the Arkendish probably requires juice (or maybe money) to run, and Charlie has to make the best use of its capabilities as he can on each turn.


*lightbulb turn on*. Money. Charlie has to need Schmuckers to operate the Arkendish. It would go a long way to explain his mercenary nature. Although, it could just be that unlike Stanley, Charlie doesn't want to cause a ruckus. Stanley stands up and yells "Royalty is obsolete" (well.. that was actually Parson, but you know what I mean).. Charlie slowly makes himself rich and indispensable. He does seem to want power, just like Stanley - he's just much more sly about how he goes about getting it.

DevilDan wrote:Nope. The EyeBooks did not need an active eyemancer troika to operate.


well done. i salute you on that turn of phrase.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby DevilDan » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:44 pm

Decryption via the arkenpliers doesn't seem to even use much of Wanda's juice, much less shmuckers. It seems precipitous to suggest that the arkendish requires money to operate. Or is this just a way to make Charlie's image as a hero even shinier, to suggest that he's only a mercenary out of necessity? If so, he seems to relish his role fully, delighting in being as thoroughly mercenary as he can be.

Regarding GK's tactics, I would normally oppose wholesale expansion. It is possible, however, that the advent of the attuned arkenpliers may make such a strategy viable, what with the possibility of creating instant occupation armies in each captured city. This, however, may not be an erfopolitically savvy move as it would be likelier to further polarize opinions against Stanley, making every side feel as if it could be next on the menu.
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Re: Summer Update - 022

Postby moose o death » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:51 pm

dan i don't think stanley wants to rely on wanda's units. he's starting to look really worried that he's not in control of anything. maggies abused him, parson essentially quit from being chief warlord, wanda can raise her own army, the city popped but not to his tastes.

also wanda needs to be frontlines to decrypt, so we'll have to wait and see if stanley lets her off the leash. we already know she's not loyal to him. if stanley knew she'd be locked in a dungeon based on his previous outrage over her failling him.
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