Summer Updates - 014

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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Maldeus » Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:03 pm

I'm fairly certain that battles of Gobwin Knob v. whomever will continue to feature in Erfworld, and that they will continue to be more or less evenly matched, however I don't think every single battle is going to be a comic. I think cities will be taken in fairly conventional, uneventful battles and that we're barely even going to hear about them. I think by the time book 2 starts, Stanley's going to have a half-dozen cities again, if not more, and then we're going to start some impressive, unique battle.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Anton Gaist » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:03 pm

Very likely. It would be 13 flavors of awesome to see a map of the current Erfworld, at least the region around GK, to see which sides are closest.

We know Transylvito is close by, but it's forces are mainly intact. If Jetstone is roughly at the same distance, it would make sense to strike them first. Their army was the most heavily depleted and the use of Ansom against them would make the most impact, specially if he's revealed at a crucial moment, say, the battle for Jetstone's capital.

From what we've seen in the last few updates, going after Transylvito might not be such a good idea at the time. They have a number of warlords and presumably a rather large army at their disposal, whilst GK has only Ansom. Even if, and that's a big if, GK had a numeric/strength superiority, their lack of leadership leaves them open to guerilla tactics.

That's GK's main weakness now, the lack of leadership. Sure, Ansom's there, but that's just one warlord while TV has at least half a dozen. Lack of leadership units was not a big issue in the defense of a single city, but if GK intends to expand, they will need more than just one, albeit level 10, warlord.

Stanley may want to expand rapidly, but if Gotti has any input in what comes next, I bet he'll counsel for taking, I'd say, 30 turns to consolidate his forces and build up a reserve. He can have Jack cast a veil to make it look like all of GK became a lava lake if anyone comes snooping around. So while the rest of the world looks for a barbarian Stanley, he can rebuild his dwagon flights, build up on Plaid units (to have a roster of potential warlords) and accumulate funds for rapid unit creation.

Then drop the veil, retake the 2 closest cities promoting units to warlords as they get experience, upgrade those cities to be as defensible as possible, then use them as rally points to take the closest cities, leaving a sizable garrison and a warlord in each of them to defend them in case of a counter assault, as well as to serve as fresh reinforcements.

Now I'm assuming decrypted units can't advance/get experience, so using them for garrison would be strategically sound (except for siege and specialized units such as archons), that way live units get experience, level up and become stronger so even if they do croak the garrisons are made up of strong forces. Although it might be smart to leave a single decrypted archon in each city, for their thinkamancy abilities.

GK can afford a long, slow war. Blitzkrieg style is good for close-range targets and when resources are limited, but since resources are for all purposes unlimited, they can afford to expand, stop, build in and secure their positions, and then expand again.

...

Whew. All this to say I agree with Maldeus in that we probably won't see all the battles to come. But depending how much time passes between books 1 and 2, we might just have book 2 to begin with the start of GK's expansion. Maybe opening with GK's army marching off to their first battle, the first page being a conversation between Gotti and Sizemore, followed by an impressive 2-page spread of GK's forces leaving the city, countless ground units and flights of dwagons overhead, along with the decrypted archons.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby raphfrk » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:29 pm

DevilDan wrote:The archons were very clearly incinerated, yet there certainly were enough of them left for Wanda to decrypt.


There may be a specific "burn/destroy body" action/attack that you can perform on corpses, that doesn't happen automatically.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Cmdr I. Heartly Noah » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:31 am

Why do you assume they only have Ansom? Why wouldn't they have Scarlet, Duke Nozzle, Blue + Supes? Maybe Tarfu?
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Winged » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:17 am

allow me to list how GK has changed.

1) their forces just got big, not only do they get their usual pops, and dragons from stan, but now they have ansom and plenty of his crew.

2) wanda's new toy. We know ONE thing it can do (two if ya count how ansome sed it to destroy undead), it may have new tricks.

3) better defended than ever, come on man, a lake of lava!

4) off the raydar. obviously everyone will know they got beat, but almost none will know how, and the whole bringing back yor foes thing is a nice curveball.

5) they are ritch! Apperently the gem mining industry is about to make GW ritcher than ever, by far if they had truly only scratched the surface before. ritch is good, ritch buys allies with magical tools, and cash seems to be a big deal to the TVs, big enough to keep them from keeping a city they want.

6) Jack is back. sure they lost one mage, but they got Jack working, and from what I can tell he is one of the best options you can get, illutions are good for both attacks and defence.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Sean Clannery » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:18 am

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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby moose o death » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:55 am

Winged wrote:allow me to list how GK has changed.

1) their forces just got big, not only do they get their usual pops, and dragons from stan, but now they have ansom and plenty of his crew.

2) wanda's new toy. We know ONE thing it can do (two if ya count how ansome sed it to destroy undead), it may have new tricks.

3) better defended than ever, come on man, a lake of lava!

4) off the raydar. obviously everyone will know they got beat, but almost none will know how, and the whole bringing back yor foes thing is a nice curveball.

5) they are ritch! Apperently the gem mining industry is about to make GW ritcher than ever, by far if they had truly only scratched the surface before. ritch is good, ritch buys allies with magical tools, and cash seems to be a big deal to the TVs, big enough to keep them from keeping a city they want.

6) Jack is back. sure they lost one mage, but they got Jack working, and from what I can tell he is one of the best options you can get, illutions are good for both attacks and defence.

1, yes they do. which may not mean alot if wanda leaves the GK side. and stanley seems to planning against that which is why he's pulling parson out of the top position and trying to make ansom as loyal as possible.
2, i'm sure it does have other tricks, but how many are useful? a hammer that converts walnuts to pigeons isn't much use.
3, it only had two modes of entry before, now it has a huge front gate. gobwin knob may actually be worse of than before from a defence point of view. we saw parsons observations as someone who doesn't know all the rules yet, they have sausage dogs for ramming the walls?
4, no-one will know yet, once they attack the first city it's almost a safe bet everyone will know what's happening. a army of recently deceased units lead by a recently deceased warlord who were all croaked by the enemy city who happens to have a croakamancer just invaded us. even if the first city falls fast. the news will get out that gobwin knob is stronger than before.
5, this add's creedence to my opinion stanley is going to throw decrypted at every city wall he can find at once to thin their numbers. while bankrolling a replacement army that IS loyal to him. though your last point is good. maybe that line was foresahdowing a gk/tv alliance.
6, all of their master class croakamancers are good. thus why they are masterclass. having jack back is right up there with having wanda, sizemore or maggie back. wanda can decruypt fallen troops, sizemore can create golems and explosive chemicals, and maggie can control units from large distances. that's why they have more than just jack.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Maldeus » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:23 am

Gobwin Knob only has one croakamancer, Wanda. The rest are casters of various other disciplines, and I don't think we have any evidence to believe that Sizemore is master-class.

I'm guessing Jetstone hit Gobwin Knob with the same forces they used to take the previous cities, which means said cities probably have a light garrison. Jetstone was clearly friendly enough with other powers in the area and thus the only major threat would be Gobwin Knob, in which case it would make perfect sense to leave a skeleton garrison in order to strengthen the force attacking the Knob. This means that many if not all of Stanley's ten lost cities are probably going to be easy prey to his new army. Such easy prey makes for a poor comic and thus will probably be covered in the updates.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Rosa Vernal » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:06 am

Anton Gaist wrote:their lack of leadership.... That's GK's main weakness now, the lack of leadership. Sure, Ansom's there, but that's just one warlord


You sure on that? We don't know the composition of the forces. It's possible that they've got some casters and warlords out of the giant Decrypted force.

Plus, given that Stanley has promoted people to warlord, he can just follow Ansom/Parson's advice on who to designate Warlords.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Itzal » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:57 am

from what I understand Moose o Death the explosion we saw Sizemore do in the battle was actually one of Wanda's stored shockomancy spells. I think all sizemore can do is make golems.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:42 am

Anton Gaist wrote:Now I'm assuming decrypted units can't advance/get experience

I would not consider this a sound assumption.
Based on Stanley's reaction to withdrawing the uncroaked warlords (when Parson attacked the siege units), it would appear that regular uncroaked can level.
If they can, it's almost certain that decrypted can also.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby raphfrk » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:14 am

Maldeus wrote:Gobwin Knob only has one croakamancer, Wanda. The rest are casters of various other disciplines, and I don't think we have any evidence to believe that Sizemore is master-class.


Sizemore was key to the tunnel battle (and to a lesser extent, the volcano). He is clearly very powerful, especially when he has time to prepare. Granted, tunnel zones are his element and he may have been given an additional bonus to his units. He also levelled twice, so if he wasn't master-class, he is more likely to be now.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby moose o death » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:01 am

everyone seem to forget he is capable of making golems. he is the only mancer, heck, non overlord, in gobwin knob capable of MAKING units. wanda can make corpses dance, but sizemore can fabricate new troops.

if that doesn't put him up at masterlevel or at least more useful than some like to believe what does?

to all intents and purposes, i don't see parson being on the winning side to anything major that happens. so either he's out of GK or they get their asses ground into paste. maldeus is keen to point out the easy stuff will happen off screen. no-one said it wouldn't. we haven't seen parsons breakfast leavings since the plot relevant first time either. it's obvious.

but i will say it again an over powered protagonist does not make for a good story. so gk isn't as well equipped as we'd like to think...OR their numbers will be decimated quickly (in the pages we do read)...OR, this fantastically powerful army of wanda's walks off into the sunset and stanley and parson are left with their hands in their pockets wondering what to do.

those are my theories, they are based on decent dramatic storytelling. not so much on game rules i couldn't really care less about that stuff. any of those happening is a good turn for the future. if we end up watching some overpowered gk run about croaking small forces and amassing an ever larger maintenance free side. the story will get boring fast.

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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Anton Gaist » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:54 am

moose o death wrote:everyone seem to forget he is capable of making golems. he is the only mancer, heck, non overlord, in gobwin knob capable of MAKING units. wanda can make corpses dance, but sizemore can fabricate new troops.

if that doesn't put him up at masterlevel or at least more useful than some like to believe what does?


I don't. Sizemore is easily overlooked, but his part in the battle for GK was critical, he and his units broke the leadership in the tunnels and pretty much decided the outcome of that encounter. I have him as a master-class dirtamancer, until it's officially stated otherwise.

moose o death wrote:those are my theories, they are based on decent dramatic storytelling. not so much on game rules i couldn't really care less about that stuff. any of those happening is a good turn for the future. if we end up watching some overpowered gk run about croaking small forces and amassing an ever larger maintenance free side. the story will get boring fast.


And for the most part, I agree. I would add a twist, though. I foresee a powerful (not overpowered) GK slowly but apparently unstoppably expand, croaking small and not so small forces and taking cities, and then a dramatic spanner is thrown in the works. If things go south immediately after the "big win" it's not dramatic, it's disappointing. Give Gotti a chance to prove what kind of strategic genius he is on expansion warfare now that the field is set, and then maybe have Stanley give an order behind his back that brings it all crumbling down. Or have Wanda defect. Or Charlie capture Gotti in a surprise raid. The possibilities are numerous.

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I agree, it's not. But part of it's charm is being based on, or rather taking place in, a game. A magnificent strategy game. Now it's time to see GK on the offensive. The drama can come later.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Binty » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:20 pm

If the size of a Capital side's forces is limited by upkeep (likely imo) then GK is in a unique position; their army is not limited in this way.

If croaked Decrypted units can be Decrypted then all winning encounters will enlarge the GK army - without any cap. GK will be busy popping Dwagons, men et al too, so even if units can only be decrypted once, GK still have a hugh advantage. The only hope for the other Erfworld sides is to croak Wanda and/or capture the Arkenpliers.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Maldeus » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:08 pm

Unless the Decrypted have an Achilles Heel we don't know about.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby raphfrk » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:20 pm

moose o death wrote:but i will say it again an over powered protagonist does not make for a good story. so gk isn't as well equipped as we'd like to think...OR their numbers will be decimated quickly (in the pages we do read)...OR, this fantastically powerful army of wanda's walks off into the sunset and stanley and parson are left with their hands in their pockets wondering what to do.


Another option is that Stanley and Ansom over-reach.

This could especially happen once they take Stanley's old cities, as they are possibly poorly defended.

Once Ansom takes a few cities with almost no resistance, Stanley could decide that the Titans are with him and he doesn't need to worry about "details". He has come to that conclusion before. He told Parson that the details weren't important and Ansom was bringing him the Pliers.

The current updates even point somewhat in that direction. Parson has exited stage left and Ansom is Chief Warlord. Once they have "snatched defeat from the jaws of victory ", Parson would be called upon to rescue the situation.

Ofc, if so that would end up being similar to book 1 where he must defend from a more powerful force.

Other mess-ups could be the loss of Wanda due to doing something stupid. Parson would then need to figure out a plan to rescue her and recapture the pliers, before her uber army turns against Stanley. (even if the decrypted go neutral without Wanda, they would likely be in every city, and auto-attack).

This could be a combination of special forces and diplomacy. He did handle Ansom well with the Thinkagram, so he might be good at diplomacy.

Maldeus wrote:Unless the Decrypted have an Achilles Heel we don't know about.


Interesting. If Wanda didn't have the pliers, then they likely could be insta-dusted with it.

Maybe Croakamancers can produce a similar effect.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby zippomage » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:01 pm

I would never naysay the inventors of something as diabolically alice-down-the-rabbit-hole as Erfworld. And I'm loving the extended content that novella-type format gives me. But I wants my comics back. I wants it something bad. When does the comic become a comic again?
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Maldeus » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:20 pm

I promise you the fanservice is not getting croaked anytime soon.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Sieggy » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:44 am

There's something else which hasn't been discussed, and that's the fact that Parson now has the full scoop on Charlie. The Archons should not only be able to give him detailed intel on Charlies resources and capabilities, not to mention his location and defenses, but also give him some insight into Charlie's history and personality. They may also be able to monitor his communications and activities; Charlie was able to hack the 'books, and perhaps Parson can return the favor . . . Also, for the first time, Parson will be able to clearly assess the powers and capabilities of the Archons themselves.

Now, the question is whether Charlie has some way of knowing if the Archons have been decrypted or not; it's quite possible that the Arkendish can give him that info, displaying their status in some manner ('Sir, they went offline last turn, but now they're back . . . and the readings are really strange). Dunno, but if he does, then he knows that something's afoot in GK and will doubtless investigate.

But if I were Parson, I'd hold them as a surprise reserve and home defense. Let Ansom do his thing, and save the Archons for when the crunch really hits.
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