Book 2 – Text Updates 019

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby Frogpop » Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:29 am

You need tvtropes to tell you that internet threads tend to wander?

You're lucky I used self-restraint and kept my previous post that short. ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby Django » Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:42 am

Speaking of irony, isn't it ironic that Wanda's bad command decision of leaving Ansom behind may in the end save her?

If Ansom had been with Wanda, then Jilian would have waited for Trammensis troops and attacked Wandas Stack in order to save Ansom (and perhaps also Wanda (would have been interesting negotiations that..). Now she ignored Wandas Stack and is forcing the RCCII coalition to waste a lot of troops to save Ansom, which may not leave them enough units left to croak Wandas stack.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby djones520 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:36 am

As for the Ansom Dance fighting question, I've come to the conclusion that he can't. When he "led" the dance fight a TBFGK, he had the Archons set up a DDR style routine. Basically, he didn't know what to do, so they set out an instructional guide for it. Through them, he was able to lead his units in it, and with his considerable leadership bonus was able to womp the uncroaked led by a caster. In the Summer Updates this was further reinforced.

There were four of them with the dance fighting, leadership and Foolamancy abilities at the Battle for Gobwin Knob, and these were able to lead the Coalition's dance fight.


http://www.erfworld.com/2009/10/summer- ... 80%93-046/

So I wouldn't expect a big battle of the bands action here. Charlie is not on Ansom's side this time, so he's not going to be able to pull it off.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby Ninjaguineapig » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:39 am

Sammy's forces are going to get curb-stomped by Ansom. He's the strongest Warlord in the area (at least level 10), and still has his royal bonuses, even if he no longer calls himself royal. If Ansom stacks with the twolls and personally blocks the bridge, with archery firing into the back of the enemy column, his column will survive. A royal Chief Warlord with a max stack of Heavies is nothing to laugh at, and if Sammy can't outflank him...
Also, I stand by my theory that Stanley taught Ansom to Rock.
On a different note, the only units we've seen so far who can Rock are Stanley and Sammy. Stan has the Arkenhammer, but how does Haggar do it? Is his axe a magic item, or is that a 'racial trait' of Haggar?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby djones520 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:47 am

Ninjaguineapig wrote:Sammy's forces are going to get curb-stomped by Ansom. He's the strongest Warlord in the area (at least level 10), and still has his royal bonuses, even if he no longer calls himself royal. If Ansom stacks with the twolls and personally blocks the bridge, with archery firing into the back of the enemy column, his column will survive. A royal Chief Warlord with a max stack of Heavies is nothing to laugh at, and if Sammy can't outflank him...
Also, I stand by my theory that Stanley taught Ansom to Rock.
On a different note, the only units we've seen so far who can Rock are Stanley and Sammy. Stan has the Arkenhammer, but how does Haggar do it? Is his axe a magic item, or is that a 'racial trait' of Haggar?


Oh yeah, totally. Haggar's forces won't make it through this. I think Sammy is well aware of this when he states he's going to be the first "wave", with the implication that there will need to be more.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby build6 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:18 am

build6 wrote:y'know.

I'd actually half-thought that we were gonna find out "which is stronger - the hold Wanda has on decrypted Ansom, or The Power Of Love". What this text update shows is that it isn't even close. Which is ... kinda sad.


Flyer wrote:I think we'll get more on this... stay tuned :D


BillMcD wrote:Not necessarily... all it means is that right now, there's no direct conflict between the two, so Ansom hasn't had to choose. Right now, he can still rationalize a framework that brings both of them in-line together.


I dunno, man - the text update seemed pretty unequivocal about it. No hint that he thought of Jillian in anything like the same way. I think when (if?) Jillian swings in attempting a rescue... she could get her heart broken.

Then again, since its Jillian, that's just gonna make her MAD, right? Go all into full-attack-Hulk-Smash-mode?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby doran » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:30 am

So ...if Charlie can provide a link bonus with the arkendish, maybe Stanley can provide Ansom with one, using Maggie to convey the ability.
Lipsyncing anyone?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby multilis » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:07 am

IMO it isn't whether Ansom can dance fight but whether his army can. Book one was *most* of Jetstones forces couldn't while the *uncroaked* could, rather than about dancing of individuals Ansom or Wanda.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:06 am

doran wrote:So ...if Charlie can provide a link bonus with the arkendish, maybe Stanley can provide Ansom with one, using Maggie to convey the ability.
Lipsyncing anyone?


Facepalm. X2

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby Ninjaguineapig » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:41 pm

multilis wrote:IMO it isn't whether Ansom can dance fight but whether his army can. Book one was *most* of Jetstones forces couldn't while the *uncroaked* could, rather than about dancing of individuals Ansom or Wanda.


Regular infantry won't have dance-fight abilities. Wanda's uncroaked wouldn't be able to dance-fight if they didn't have Wanda, a dance-fight capable commander leading them.

doran wrote:So ...if Charlie can provide a link bonus with the arkendish, maybe Stanley can provide Ansom with one, using Maggie to convey the ability.
Lipsyncing anyone?

Although I think Ansom is capable of Rocking (or at least dance-fighting), this could totally save him. I can see Maggie sending a one-way thinkagram to the forward GK hex, transmitting Stanley Rocking Out in the war-room.

Also, I'll reask my previous question: How does Sammy Rock? Stanley can do it thanks to his hammer, but Sammy doesn't have an Arkenhammer. I'd say that his axe was a magic item, but his troops are able to Headbang. Does this mean Rocking is a Haggar 'racial trait'?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby multilis » Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:05 pm

" Alone, he could rock out harder than any ensemble, and his *men* could at least headbang." (Contrast that to *most* of Jetstone not able to dance)

http://www.erfworld.com/page/25/

I think it is the total dance score of leader *and* men. Wanda's was a special case, DDR was a special case of a leader being able to *give* the special to others in unique magic situation.

I take normal situation of *most* of Jetstone not able to dance meaning without Charlie's help, Wanda and her puppets would do their thing and only Ansom could counter dance, and Wanda would win with higher total score.

Ansom managed to win by filling court with more units than the undead, then using complex magic by units in same hex giving his men a similar dance buff that Wanda could give to undead.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby Dances-with-Marbits » Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:02 pm

multilis wrote:" Alone, he could rock out harder than any ensemble, and his *men* could at least headbang." (Contrast that to *most* of Jetstone not able to dance)

http://www.erfworld.com/page/25/

Personally, I think Sammy's full of himself, headbanging really isn't that badass, A Night at the Roxbury anyone?

I think it is the total dance score of leader *and* men. Wanda's was a special case, DDR was a special case of a leader being able to *give* the special to others in unique magic situation.

I take normal situation of *most* of Jetstone not able to dance meaning without Charlie's help, Wanda and her puppets would do their thing and only Ansom could counter dance, and Wanda would win with higher total score.

Ansom managed to win by filling court with more units than the undead, then using complex magic by units in same hex giving his men a similar dance buff that Wanda could give to undead.

Dance-fighting seems to be a multiplicative modifier to a unit's attack score. More dance-fighting units, more effect it has for your side.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby DoctorJest » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:13 pm

Dances-with-Marbits wrote:
multilis wrote:" Alone, he could rock out harder than any ensemble, and his *men* could at least headbang." (Contrast that to *most* of Jetstone not able to dance)

http://www.erfworld.com/page/25/

Personally, I think Sammy's full of himself, headbanging really isn't that badass, A Night at the Roxbury anyone?


It's inferred that Headbanging is a rudimentary form of Rocking Out, and we know from the Summer Updates that Rocking Out is better than Dance Fighting.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby dan2178 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:18 pm

Dances-with-Marbits wrote:Personally, I think Sammy's full of himself, headbanging really isn't that badass, A Night at the Roxbury anyone?



Absolutely. He's Prince Sammy of Haggar, not Prince David Lee of Roth :P
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby Dr Pepper » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:17 pm

Hah! I expected the next text entry to be Ansom's point of view. Just got too busy to post it as a prediction :( Still i probably wouldn't have gotten the detals right.

Anyway, it's good to see Ansom playing to hist strengths again. Soon he will rationalize that Wanda must have known somehow and that's why she put him, her most powerful unit, where he could do the most good.
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby Dr Pepper » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:03 am

gazes_also wrote:Great image - Ansom's chin appears to get bigger the more grimly determined he is.


Signamancy
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby Ninjaguineapig » Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:06 am

Dr Pepper wrote:Anyway, it's good to see Ansom playing to hist strengths again. Soon he will rationalize that Wanda must have known somehow and that's why she put him, her most powerful unit, where he could do the most good.


Probably. He completely and utterly belongs to Wanda and Toolism,
[quote=Warlord Formerly Known as Prince Ansom]As cities had fallen before them and their holy ranks had swelled[/quote]
Their holy ranks. Jillian has no chance of nabbing him. Loyalty too high, and I'd like to see the unit that gets close to a mounted level 10 Royal Chief Warlord and lives.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby Flyer » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:19 am

Ninjaguineapig wrote:
Dr Pepper wrote:Anyway, it's good to see Ansom playing to hist strengths again. Soon he will rationalize that Wanda must have known somehow and that's why she put him, her most powerful unit, where he could do the most good.


Probably. He completely and utterly belongs to Wanda and Toolism,
[quote=Warlord Formerly Known as Prince Ansom]As cities had fallen before them and their holy ranks had swelled
Their holy ranks. Jillian has no chance of nabbing him. Loyalty too high, and I'd like to see the unit that gets close to a mounted level 10 Royal Chief Warlord and lives.


So - very unlikely that Jillian can turn Ansom...
But = what of Ansom's forshadowed attempt to "save" Jillian?
...Ansom by her side, under Wanda's delicate control.... hmmmmm
Are we going to be seeing another parley?
or maybe
Spoiler: show
The Red Rocker pulls a rabbit out of his hat and take out Ansom - dusting him with a swing of his Axe as Jillian gives the big "NOOOO" in the background while Charlie grins having taken out one of Jillians... distractions
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby build6 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:07 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:Anyway, it's good to see Ansom playing to hist strengths again.


y'know, what you said there made me think that this update really does put Ansom in a pretty good light. I dunno if I was reading things wrong, but throughout book 1 I was thinking of Ansom as more of a ... well, not outright stupid, but certainly not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed.

but then on reading this:

In war, things went terribly wrong all the time. You planned, and you planned contingencies, and you planned contingencies to the contingencies, and you set up reserves and fallbacks to those, et cetera. You thought as hard as you could, all the time, about what to do when your plans failed. Then you marched into battle, and the failures began, and you hoped to have planned for one more failure than actually occurred.


suddenly, my opinion of Ansom has completely changed. maybe he's not all that creative, but he certainly doesn't appear to be incompetent.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 019

Postby gazes_also » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:28 pm

Flyer wrote:
Ninjaguineapig wrote:
Dr Pepper wrote:Anyway, it's good to see Ansom playing to hist strengths again. Soon he will rationalize that Wanda must have known somehow and that's why she put him, her most powerful unit, where he could do the most good.


Probably. He completely and utterly belongs to Wanda and Toolism,
[quote=Warlord Formerly Known as Prince Ansom]As cities had fallen before them and their holy ranks had swelled
Their holy ranks. Jillian has no chance of nabbing him. Loyalty too high, and I'd like to see the unit that gets close to a mounted level 10 Royal Chief Warlord and lives.


So - very unlikely that Jillian can turn Ansom...
But = what of Ansom's forshadowed attempt to "save" Jillian?
...Ansom by her side, under Wanda's delicate control.... hmmmmm
Are we going to be seeing another parley?
or maybe
Spoiler: show
The Red Rocker pulls a rabbit out of his hat and take out Ansom - dusting him with a swing of his Axe as Jillian gives the big "NOOOO" in the background while Charlie grins having taken out one of Jillians... distractions


It seems reasonable that one way or another Ansom is removed from the scene so Parson can become Chief Warlord again, so here are the options I see
1. Dusted by Sammy, Jillian or Trammenis - last two, 'releasing' him, like spiking a vampire who was someone you loved.
2. Turned - not totally unlikely - it does seem as if he's acting under a post hypnotic suggestion, and therefore could be broken, either that or deprogram him like a cult member.
3. Taken prisoner - (now this one I like) captured but can't be turned so is confined in the dungeon of Jetstsone or Faq until they can figure him out.

This would have lots of possibilities, experimenting on him to try and understand what the decrypted are and how they function.
Also you could have Slately, Trammenis or Jillian having deep conversations with him in his cell about the nature of Toolism, the holy mission and the nature of the Titans and Erfworld itself as part of his deprogramming.
Since Faq will most likely provide air support to Sammy's crossing, grabbing him is quite possible.

If Jillian doesn't go back to deal with the Wanda threat there is also the possibility that since Charlie has first turn the next day he could sweep in with a squadron of veiled Archons and whisk her away before anyone else sees what's going on - pouff, sh'e gone.
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