Book 2 – Page 23

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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby teratorn » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:27 pm

Konaa wrote:If Jillian is attempting to turn Ansom, which I think there is a 95% chance of her attempting to do, then it would appear that no matter the circumstances, Parson and Ansom are destined (or rather, Fated) to be enemies.


Or she could be going for the other huge army sitting one turn outside the city. They have heavies and everything she needs to lay siege to GK forces in the cities they have conquered. If the prince turns does his army turn with him?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby DoctorJest » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:09 pm

build6 wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:Based on the first few summer updates, the implication seemed quite clear to me that the Tool was EXTREMELY wary of Parson, and knows he is "special."


there was that bit about how Stanley was mystified why Parson didn't do something AND didn't automatically disband, right?


You mean the incident that had more to do with Wanda than Parson, and that ended with him being immediately mollified by ordering Parson to slap himself, then was distracted by the idea of taming some Dwagons?

No, Stanley's not afraid of Parson. He thinks Parson is kinda stupid and doesn't know things he's supposed to know and finds him irritating and exasperating in his ignorance. Stanley made Ansom chief warlord because Ansom fits his image of what a Chief Warlord should look like. We know from the very beginning of book 1 that Stanley's criteria for promoting warlords is rather... superficial.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Konaa » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:28 pm

teratorn wrote:
Konaa wrote:If Jillian is attempting to turn Ansom, which I think there is a 95% chance of her attempting to do, then it would appear that no matter the circumstances, Parson and Ansom are destined (or rather, Fated) to be enemies.


Or she could be going for the other huge army sitting one turn outside the city. They have heavies and everything she needs to lay siege to GK forces in the cities they have conquered. If the prince turns does his army turn with him?


No, soldiers have their own loyalty rating, and as we've seen they are certainly not mindless.

Turnamancy only effects its target. Jillian tries to take someone, whether it succeeds or not that someone is taken, and just that someone. She can take Ansom safely (if it succeeds) cause who the hell is going to stop him? A bunch of infantry with no bonus? hahano.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Dances-with-Marbits » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:41 pm

Konaa wrote:
teratorn wrote:
Konaa wrote:If Jillian is attempting to turn Ansom, which I think there is a 95% chance of her attempting to do, then it would appear that no matter the circumstances, Parson and Ansom are destined (or rather, Fated) to be enemies.


Or she could be going for the other huge army sitting one turn outside the city. They have heavies and everything she needs to lay siege to GK forces in the cities they have conquered. If the prince turns does his army turn with him?


No, soldiers have their own loyalty rating, and as we've seen they are certainly not mindless.

Turnamancy only effects its target. Jillian tries to take someone, whether it succeeds or not that someone is taken, and just that someone. She can take Ansom safely (if it succeeds) cause who the hell is going to stop him? A bunch of infantry with no bonus? hahano.

The thing about trying to turn Ansom is that they have no idea what would happen, they don't know if he would turn, or disband, or if nothing would happen at all.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Konaa » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:45 pm

Indeed. The fact is- she's gonna try.

Is it a battle of wills between Wanda and Vanna? Or something else entirely?

We'll just have to wait and see to find out.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby splintermute » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:54 pm

teratorn wrote:
Konaa wrote:If Jillian is attempting to turn Ansom, which I think there is a 95% chance of her attempting to do, then it would appear that no matter the circumstances, Parson and Ansom are destined (or rather, Fated) to be enemies.


Or she could be going for the other huge army sitting one turn outside the city. They have heavies and everything she needs to lay siege to GK forces in the cities they have conquered. If the prince turns does his army turn with him?

If it worked like that, any side with a turnamancer should own Erfworld by now.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Ansan Gotti » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:11 pm

DoctorJest wrote:
build6 wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:Based on the first few summer updates, the implication seemed quite clear to me that the Tool was EXTREMELY wary of Parson, and knows he is "special."


there was that bit about how Stanley was mystified why Parson didn't do something AND didn't automatically disband, right?


You mean the incident that had more to do with Wanda than Parson, and that ended with him being immediately mollified by ordering Parson to slap himself, then was distracted by the idea of taming some Dwagons?

No, Stanley's not afraid of Parson. He thinks Parson is kinda stupid and doesn't know things he's supposed to know and finds him irritating and exasperating in his ignorance. Stanley made Ansom chief warlord because Ansom fits his image of what a Chief Warlord should look like. We know from the very beginning of book 1 that Stanley's criteria for promoting warlords is rather... superficial.


This summer update implies otherwise:

http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... ie_600.jpg

Stanley might be an idiot, and he might have "reverted to type" very quickly, but that summer update speaks volumes. He knows Parson did something unbelievable, something enormous, and Stanley in his insecurity and stupidity is trying to compensate for that by lowering his chances of being a threat.

I do love the thing that someone pointed out in the last update, that the demotion of Parson caused all sorts of loyalty issues, as we learned from Don's thoughts about Caesar.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby raphfrk » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:56 pm

Lawd wrote:In Macbeth (like, the Scottish play), after Macbeth kills (Spoiler alert! ;)) king Duncan, he goes to Scone to be crowned.


I added it to the wiki for you :).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby junovalkyrie » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:12 am

I've got this twisted idea in my head where Jillian tries to turn Ansom and fails due to Arken-magic trumping regular magic, and then goes back to Vinny and finds out that he's mad at her for some action of hers during the battle and will not forgive her. Suddenly she finds that her prospects have sunk, in the space of a turn or two, from four to zero and, feeling rejected and betrayed by the ones she loves, eventually finds herself coming back to her longest-standing lover, Wanda... who then rejects and/or betrays her, having [felt that she had] been on the receiving end of such treatment one too many times and/or suspecting Jillian will turn on her again. ("Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twi-, uh, thrice, shame on me.")

Not that I think any of that is likely, though it certainly would fit "Love is a Battlefield".

Re: art, I liked the expressions in this update. Two things in the background also stood out; the first was the donut-shaped buildings in Jetstone, which just kind of piqued my curiosity (but likely have no explanation), and the second was the archon in the third-to-last panel, who at first I thought was being devoured headfirst by a dwagon with lipstick. :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby robak » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:21 am

Jack calls Jillian "Highness", which strikes me as a bit odd (that is what strikes me as odd about Jack??). Isn't highness a title for a royal heir rather than for a queen (which I guess would be majesty)? So, does Jack still see Jillian as the warrior princess of old rather than the grown-up queen of Faq?
Or is my etiquette off here?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby multilis » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:49 am

robak wrote:Jack calls Jillian "Highness", which strikes me as a bit odd (that is what strikes me as odd about Jack??). Isn't highness a title for a royal heir rather than for a queen (which I guess would be majesty)? So, does Jack still see Jillian as the warrior princess of old rather than the grown-up queen of Faq?
Or is my etiquette off here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highness

You are correct for modern British royalty, starting in reign of James I, before then queens were also highness. Other countries have own variations.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby gazes_also » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:04 pm

I do love the thing that someone pointed out in the last update, that the demotion of Parson caused all sorts of loyalty issues, as we learned from Don's thoughts about Caesar.


Wel, Maggie and Sizemore certainly seem conflicted, but I don't see it as having any wider effect. The Decrypted are primarily loyal to Wanda and prior to that the vast majority of them were in the RCC army with Ansom as Chief Warlord. It was probably Wanda convincing Stanley that it was his own idea to put Ansom back in charge, so she could effectively be in control. That is Stanley's big misjudgement - not realizing how powerful Wanda has become.

robak wrote:Jack calls Jillian "Highness", which strikes me as a bit odd (that is what strikes me as odd about Jack??). Isn't highness a title for a royal heir rather than for a queen (which I guess would be majesty)? So, does Jack still see Jillian as the warrior princess of old rather than the grown-up queen of Faq?
Or is my etiquette off here?


Your right, "Highness" usually refers to princes and princesses, "Majesty" to kings and queens. It's not just royal heirs, but all royal offspring, plus rulers of principalities are addressed as 'Highness" - the ruler of Monaco is addressed as "His Serene Highness Prince Albert II".
As to your point, It seems a mark of affection for Jillian and the past they shared, may be that's what he always called her, even if playfully or ironically, and there seemed to be a wistful tone in his reply.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:03 pm

teratorn wrote:
Konaa wrote:If Jillian is attempting to turn Ansom, which I think there is a 95% chance of her attempting to do, then it would appear that no matter the circumstances, Parson and Ansom are destined (or rather, Fated) to be enemies.


Or she could be going for the other huge army sitting one turn outside the city. They have heavies and everything she needs to lay siege to GK forces in the cities they have conquered. If the prince turns does his army turn with him?


Even if a army turns with its leader (I don't think so), what would be the gain in turning Jetstone's or Haggar's forces? They are allied, and Jetstone will lay siege to GK as soon as possible anyway. And Jillian only has a small kingdom that needs funding from TV and Charlescomm. With so many additional troops Faq could simply get broke and be forced to disband the new troops.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:10 pm

gazes_also wrote:
I do love the thing that someone pointed out in the last update, that the demotion of Parson caused all sorts of loyalty issues, as we learned from Don's thoughts about Caesar.


Wel, Maggie and Sizemore certainly seem conflicted, but I don't see it as having any wider effect. The Decrypted are primarily loyal to Wanda and prior to that the vast majority of them were in the RCC army with Ansom as Chief Warlord. It was probably Wanda convincing Stanley that it was his own idea to put Ansom back in charge, so she could effectively be in control. That is Stanley's big misjudgement - not realizing how powerful Wanda has become.


Given that the only "real" units alive at that point in time were the casters, Stanley, Vurp, and Parson, I think a loyalty hit to the casters and Vurp is about all that it COULD have been in terms of scope. That said, I think that alone (and Rob had foreshadowed it with Maggie, Sizemore, Jack and Vurp very well, even before we got the info from Don) will end up being quite significant, considering how powerful they all are, and how important I am guessing they will all be to the plot.

Oh yeah, and there were about seven dwagons and a couple of uncroaked and golems. But we can probably assume the latter aren't relevant, and for the former, Parson might have used up his goodwill after trying his riding trick. ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby DoctorJest » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:27 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:Stanley might be an idiot, and he might have "reverted to type" very quickly, but that summer update speaks volumes. He knows Parson did something unbelievable, something enormous, and Stanley in his insecurity and stupidity is trying to compensate for that by lowering his chances of being a threat.


I don't read it the same way at all. In fact, the update seems to suggest that what Stanley is really worried about is Wanda and the whole incident with Parson is playing up his insecurity even further, but it has it's roots with the fact that Wanda is in direct control of almost all GK's troops, and those troops are loyal to her, not him.

I don't think Stanley sees Parson as a threat. I think he *should*, but I am not buying that he does.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Menas » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:38 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:
Menas wrote:This statement appears to be based completely on supposition. Stanley has never admitted anything indicating that he is aware of or respects any of Parson's abilities. On the contrary, most of Parson's suggestions are met with disdain from Stanley.


Based on the first few summer updates, the implication seemed quite clear to me that the Tool was EXTREMELY wary of Parson, and knows he is "special." So although it might not be canon or explicitly stated, I think it's a stretch for you to say the previous poster's comment is "based completely on supposition."


The part of the statement I was referring to was this:

'It's why he removed Parosn from Chief Warlord and keeps him close in GK. Stanley is scared of Parson.'

Stanley has never acknowledged any of this in any way, shape, or form. That makes it supposition.

As for this part of the statement:

'No. Stanley is quite aware of Parson's abilities.'

While we have reason to believe that Stanley is aware that there are some aspects to Parson that are different from other units, we don't have reason to believe that he knows what those difference or abilities are, because he's never made any coherent statement on the matter. Also, we have plenty of reason to believe that instead of appreciating any of those differences, Stanley resents them. Stanley has been shown to be pretty thick, and doesn't generally like things that don't follow the norm.

So while it's true that we have reason to believe Stanley knows there is something different about Parson, we don't have any reason to believe that he knows what those differences are, or that he respects any of those differences, as he's never indicated either of those things. Which makes them supposition.

P.S. Please show me the update that indicated Stanley was WARY of Parson. I don't remember anything from Stanley that I would have described to be WARY behavior.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Menas » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:49 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:
DoctorJest wrote:
build6 wrote:there was that bit about how Stanley was mystified why Parson didn't do something AND didn't automatically disband, right?


You mean the incident that had more to do with Wanda than Parson, and that ended with him being immediately mollified by ordering Parson to slap himself, then was distracted by the idea of taming some Dwagons?

No, Stanley's not afraid of Parson. He thinks Parson is kinda stupid and doesn't know things he's supposed to know and finds him irritating and exasperating in his ignorance. Stanley made Ansom chief warlord because Ansom fits his image of what a Chief Warlord should look like. We know from the very beginning of book 1 that Stanley's criteria for promoting warlords is rather... superficial.


This summer update implies otherwise:

http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... ie_600.jpg

Stanley might be an idiot, and he might have "reverted to type" very quickly, but that summer update speaks volumes. He knows Parson did something unbelievable, something enormous, and Stanley in his insecurity and stupidity is trying to compensate for that by lowering his chances of being a threat.

I do love the thing that someone pointed out in the last update, that the demotion of Parson caused all sorts of loyalty issues, as we learned from Don's thoughts about Caesar.


>>>'...but that summer update speaks volumes.'

About what? All Stanley said was that Parson did 'pretty good' under the circumstances, and that he (Stanley) shouldn't have left because things would have turned out BETTER if he had stuck around. In other words, not only did Parson get lucky, he got REALLY lucky since Stanley wasn't around to help him (from Stanley's point of view).

I think the only reason he was being nice to Parson in that update is because he was about to tell him that Ansom was going to be leading the troops in battle as the new Chief Warlord, and he was trying to soften him up before delivering the news that he was going to be demoted.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Oberon » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:54 pm

Lawd wrote:In Macbeth (like, the Scottish play), after Macbeth kills (Spoiler alert! ;)) king Duncan, he goes to Scone to be crowned. Scone castle is the place where Scottish kings are crowned (perhaps with a laurel created by three witches, or as some would say, a tri-link ;)), so at one time Duncan was at Scone.
Coincidence or just one more of Erfworld's many references wrapped up in an allusion insinuated by some connected source?
Nice catch! I saw an episode of TV Highlander where Duncan Mcleod returned the Stone of Scone to Scottland, and that was my take on Duncan Scone. But I like yours better. The author does seem to like to craft multiple meanings into his references. There are many examples of this. Mixing the cloud city dude and Macbeth is one of them.

And as for your spoiler alert, isn't there some kind of statute of limitations on those things? Rosebud was his sled. :twisted:

Idle speculations that I haven't seen yet: Vanna spent two turns juice on the (*ptui*) Kingworld spell. All signs point to it being a tri-mancer link, even though we have not seen the third caster. "Two turns" makes me think Dittomancer. All I have to say on the matter is that it had best be a tri-mancer link. If Charlie can end another sides turn simply by hiring a Turnamancer from the MK, then my opinion of this web comic will be very low. There should be more cost than that, as well. I just hope that when the details are revealed, and they must be for reader satisfaction, that they make some sort of sense. Not like the last time we were promised that all would be made clear and what we got was the craptastic "Charlie didn't offer this strategy, but Ansom knew to ask."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Dances-with-Marbits » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:03 pm

I prefer to think that Duncan is a reference to Duncan Idaho, who was the nearest thing to chief warlord for House Atreides in Dune.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 23

Postby Oberon » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:24 pm

build6 wrote:there was that bit about how Stanley was mystified why Parson didn't do something AND didn't automatically disband, right?
Yes, but Parson was not deliberately disobeying Stanley, as Stanley had thought. Parson just didn't understand at the time that he had to make his rounds to grant the benefit of having a Warlord manage the city. Because it made no sense to him that walking into an empty bank would cause it to produce more schmuckers. He disobeyed in ignorance, in the literal sense of not knowing that he was disobeying, rather than willful disobedience which would have disbanded another Warlord. This was why Stanley was amazed that he didn't disband.

robak wrote:Jack calls Jillian "Highness", which strikes me as a bit odd (that is what strikes me as odd about Jack??). Isn't highness a title for a royal heir rather than for a queen (which I guess would be majesty)? So, does Jack still see Jillian as the warrior princess of old rather than the grown-up queen of Faq?
Or is my etiquette off here?
The comic has not been consistent on the matter of titles. For example, several GK characters have referred to Wanda as "my lady", which is a term used by nobility. But GK is not a Royal side, and Wanda has never been described as coming from a Royal side. Describing her people as a "tribe" would tend to indicate that they were not royals. So why a person in a non-royal side would refer to another non-royal unit as "my lady", a term indicating nobility, is rather baffling.

gazes_also wrote:It was probably Wanda convincing Stanley that it was his own idea to put Ansom back in charge, so she could effectively be in control. That is Stanley's big misjudgement - not realizing how powerful Wanda has become.
I disagree with you on both points. First, it was Ansom who convinced Stanley to remove Parson from the position of Chief Warlord. This was detailed, and no mention of Wanda was made. You're running on pure reader input to suggest that Wanda suggested this change. Second, Stanley does indeed realize how powerful Wanda has become. This has also been detailed. You're contradicting the author to suggest otherwise.

Idle specualtion that has been covered many times before: If Jillian is here for anyone other than herself, it is for Ansom. She has no relationship and might not even know most or all of the other units whose names have been being tossed around. Sammy? We have not seen her interact with him in any way. Stanley? She may want him dead, but he is more than a turn away, and she can not hope to turn him. Tramennis? Again, no interaction. She may know of him since he is Anson's brother and she is an ally of Jetstone, but for "I'm finally sure who I came here for" to make sense, the readers would need to see some character interaction. Ansom is the sole unit who makes sense in the context, if it isn't Jillian herself.
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