Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby Sonic Screwdriver » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:01 am

Hmm, can a unit change their status to garrison for any kind of bonus, at the expense of not being able to leave the hex without spending schmuckers?
User avatar
Sonic Screwdriver
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby multilis » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:32 am

Sonic Screwdriver wrote:Hmm, can a unit change their status to garrison for any kind of bonus, at the expense of not being able to leave the hex without spending schmuckers?

We know it costs money to change status *from* garrison, not yet been hinted if garrison has a bonus.

In civilization a unit which has not moved for a turn can have a 50% bonus to defense, possible garrison works similarly here, or possible it is just a disadvantage.
multilis
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:06 am

gazes_also wrote:It's not that he doesn't want to hear Caesar's position, he's heard it all too often. There's a difference between disagreeing with the Boss in private - that's offering a different point of view - and disagreeing with him in public - that's a challenge, especially if you are restating you position which is already known. Don did what any good manager would do, defuse the situation. He saved Caesar from doing or saying something he couldn't back down from, saved the warlords from the embarrassment of choosing Don or Caesar, and he saved himself from exercising the power everyone there knows he has. It's good management of an unruly but capable subordinate.

As for the outcome, a leader always has to look as if he knows what he's doing, especially when he doesn't.


That is pretty much my reading of it too. And I agree, there is a time and place for such things and during the middle of monitoring a critical battle probably isn't the time for a king and supreme general to have a spat in front of the other commanders, especially when the king is already well aware of the generals views on the particular course of action.

More so since it doesn't achieve or change anything either other then giving Caesar the chance to knock Don's strategy in front of the warlords. TV isn't in a position to get rid of Jillian at the moment or take her cities, what with Jillian at Spacerock and both Faq and TV being in the RCCII. What's done is done and for the time being they are committed to their support of her.

Raza wrote:The latter. Ordering people out of the room because they're supporting a position you don't want to hear about is pretty pathetic, especially when they actually have no physical choice but to obey. If they are also your friends and part of your objective is to avoid their disapproval, the corruption is intellectual, governmental and personal.

Previously he'd seemed the reasonable type, but I guess that's just because he was only ever on the offensive, point-making wise.


Maybe in some in environments but this isn't a parliamentary debate or Don and his warlords are sitting around chatting over drinks, where someone expresses an opinion he doesn't agree with so he sends everyone out so they can't hear it and so he can deal with the different thinker in private.

Despite the party theme this is a war room, they are monitoring a battle and at the first sign of trouble Caesar decided to let everyone in on what he thinks about his king's course of action. Even in real world democracies I'm not aware of a similar situation in a military, in the context of monitoring an operation/plan/action in the process of being carried out, where a subordinate would be free to just open up in front of everyone about their "differences with their superiors on grand strategy". There might be avenues, times, places, but you don't hear a bad report in the first few moments and instantly get up on a soapbox (which it sounds like Caesar was) and start going on about how this current course of action is bad and how from the very start you always thought those behind it had it wrong and now you're being proved right.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
User avatar
Dancing Cthulhu
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:49 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby insanenoodlyguy » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:54 pm

Interesting to is that we now have confirmation of what happened with Maggie. Not counting Wanda, who barely cared for stanley to begin with, Maggie clearly and even openly disagreed with taking Parson out of the Chief Warlord slot. Vurp, who didn't even know parson personally, felt the same way. They took Loyalty hits, Sizemore not so much, because he was less in awe of Parson then terrified of his genius. We've know idea how Jack felt, but that's at least 2 out of 5.

I wonder how it would have gone down if they still had an army leftover when it'd happened.
insanenoodlyguy
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:15 am

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby multilis » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:26 pm

"There might be avenues, times, places, but you don't hear a bad report in the first few moments and instantly get up on a soapbox (which it sounds like Caesar was)"

From Caesar's perspective, he was promised Heir, he has make no mistake and suddenly Heir is taken away from him. He already fears Don might be trying to kill him. He is in a situation where at any time things may change and Faq rulership may be possible.

In his own way he is trying to look after himself, he plays a dangerous game. His alternatives are not so pretty either, if he is good warlord, he may still get killed "accidentally" in some border skirmish for being too popular, and his best hope is to retire head of a boring lvl 2 city which he doesn't want at all, and impossible to hide relationship with Bunny forever.

If he wins his game, he gets Jill's kingdom if Jill does too much stupid, or gets Don's kingdom if Don becomes too unpopular. If he got rulership of Faq, he can always hope to eventually pop some casters or other valuables and be in a position to trade for Bunny.

Game is far from over, Don has just taken responsibility for Jillian, and Jillian's next action may blow a sure win for the Royals. Or heir could turn into a failure like Don's original "children".

***

Don's perspective, agree he is doing good "employee management" in short term. But overall, he is making mistake of backing Caesar into a corner without hope, it would be better imo to tell Caesar privately "if you are more valuable my heir or if Jill really screws up, you may still get a kingdom. But causing disruptions reduces your value. But I also have to please the 'royals' right now, so we will keep up appearances and have a royal heir for me or have you promise to make him your heir should he behave"

Caesar is valuable, should be kept an asset rather than make a liability.
multilis
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby Davre » Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:52 am

multilis wrote:Don's perspective, agree he is doing good "employee management" in short term. But overall, he is making mistake of backing Caesar into a corner without hope, it would be better imo to tell Caesar privately "if you are more valuable my heir or if Jill really screws up, you may still get a kingdom. But causing disruptions reduces your value. But I also have to please the 'royals' right now, so we will keep up appearances and have a royal heir for me or have you promise to make him your heir should he behave"

Caesar is valuable, should be kept an asset rather than make a liability.


Good point. Don King seems pretty resourceful and the update mentions that he had planned for Caesar to take the level-2-by-the-coast way out but that Caesar wasn't interested. Maybe he will adjust and try an alternative.
Davre
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:38 pm

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby Krennson » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:14 am

You know, with Caesar being so invested in eventually inheriting the kingdom after the Don.....

When exactly did he EXPECT to inherit? We haven't heard anything about an old age or mandatory retirement mechanic yet. The Don never leaves the capital city, so he wasn't going to die from steel poisoning.

Did the Don promise to take up reckless adventures once he had an heir he trusted or something?

I would have thought that if Caesar were told simply that his inheritance, which wouldn't come due for a hundred+ years, still wouldn't come due for a hundred+ years, but now he also needed enter into honest competition with a Royal prince, as an experiment to see who was better...

I can't see Caesar getting that upset about it. Unless he was already planning to kill the king early, or steal bunny and found a new side or something.
Krennson
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby MonteCristo » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:12 am

Krennson wrote:You know, with Caesar being so invested in eventually inheriting the kingdom after the Don.....

Thing is, Ceasar isn't all that invested in inheriting the kingdom
What Caeser wants is whatever is best for TV... If Don king is what's best for TV, then Don king can sit on that throne as long as he likes; Caesar's status as heir becomes nothing more than a safety net should the unlikely happens

What we are seeing now however is that Caeser is starting to feel like their kingdom is in danger and slipping... As far as he sees it, Don is making serious mistakes; such as investing so much time and energy into building up Faq... he also knows how the last heirs turned out and that there was a reason why Don chose to rely on selecting an heir from his warlords; he knows himself, he knows how TV will be under him, but he knows nothing about the new royal-heir...

he furthermore is starting to fear for himself as he feels like the Don is starting to push him off to the wayside; with a new heir on the way he's starting to think that Don will get rid of him like the way he got rid all his advisors
User avatar
MonteCristo
YOTD Supporter!
YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:48 pm

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby atalex » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:19 am

multilis wrote:From Caesar's perspective ... he has make no mistake.


That, IMO, is Caesar's real problem. He has no idea that he has made any mistakes and can't understand what he has done to so jeopardize his own standing, As DK has noted, Caesar is totally lacking in finesse and, even worse, like most people who lack finesse, he seems oblivious to just how lacking in finesse he is or even the fact that finesse is a vital attribute in a political leader. Not to mention that his default response to being balked or challenged in any way seems to be a sullen tantrum. The reason his position in TV is threatened is because his behavior of late has demonstrated that, while he is obviously an able commander, he lacks the interpersonal skills to competently interact with potential allies, peers and/or rivals. And his response to seeing his position threatened is to intensify the very behavior that has endangered his position.

The only way I see forward for Caesar is with a coup, and frankly, from what we've seen, I don't think he's competent to execute a coup against DK. At a minimum, he would need the support of a significant number of named characters and I can't think of any TV unit who has actually been identified who could realistically help him overthrow DK. Heck, we have nothing other than Caesar's own subjective thoughts to make us believe that Bunny (who has not said a word so far in this book) is more loyal to him than to DK. Personally, I think he's doomed but his doom will come in some Shakespearean singing-dancing mafia vampire way. It will be awesome.
atalex
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby multilis » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:01 pm

" As DK has noted, Caesar is totally lacking in finesse" in a kingdom that lacks courtiers, that may not be a bad thing. That can actually be a good position to negotiate from. (Known finesse carries much more paranoia about backstabs).

What he needs is Don making a deal with him is better for Don than Don killing him.

Caesar may actually *have* some well hidden finesse, he *may* have gotten away with hiding Bunny, and his "lack" may be partially an act which successfully got him #2 position in kingdom.
multilis
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby Ehbobo » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:00 pm

I can't really see Caesar being able to hide it that well, all I suppose that that would be the point.
Ehbobo
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:57 pm

Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 016

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:19 am

multilis wrote:"There might be avenues, times, places, but you don't hear a bad report in the first few moments and instantly get up on a soapbox (which it sounds like Caesar was)"

From Caesar's perspective, he was promised Heir, he has make no mistake and suddenly Heir is taken away from him. He already fears Don might be trying to kill him. He is in a situation where at any time things may change and Faq rulership may be possible.


I think that is Caesar's problem - his perspective. I like him, but he might be putting to much on being "promised" heir.

As we have seen, and Caesar should know, Don runs a side based on rewarding achievement and putting the best guy for the job in the position. Caesar became heir because he was the best option and Don's son and daughter weren't.

Now, in recent times, Caesar looks in danger of loosing the position of heir and he should be looking for reason why, such as whether it is something about himself that is making Don view him as unsuitable and what he can do to fix that. He isn't, as you say from his perspective he's done nothing wrong and Don is just taking it away from him.

Edit: atalex covered this already, heh, I probably should read more posts before responding myself.

" As DK has noted, Caesar is totally lacking in finesse" in a kingdom that lacks courtiers, that may not be a bad thing. That can actually be a good position to negotiate from. (Known finesse carries much more paranoia about backstabs).


Well, it is a double edged sword. You might well want your subordinates to lack finesse when dealing with you so you don't have to wonder to much about sneaky stuff, but you probably want to feel the person you put on the throne will have enough of it to run the kingdom properly and deal with allies and enemies.

Don apparently feels Caesar hasn't displayed the qualities necessary for him to rule TV well (and to be fair he is right, since Caesar seems to concerned about small picture stuff while Wanda's decrypted army of doom is rolling across Erfworld) and Caesar isn't helping his position much.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
User avatar
Dancing Cthulhu
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:49 am
Location: Sydney

Previous

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests