MarbitChow wrote:I'll make you a deal: for every reference of something in Erfworld that works the way it works in our reality that you can find, that the author mentions but doesn't add details about (in other words, he assumes we know what it is), and I'll name 3 things that had to be explained. If I run out of things before you do, you win.
That game is missing the point. Many of the things that don't need to be explained because they are just like reality also don't need to be mentioned for exactly the same reason. The author trusts that we don't need to be told many, many things because we will assume they are like reality, or close enough to reality so that we will understand. More than that, I'll go out on a limb slightly and suggest that Erfworld is very much like reality in people's every-day experience of it and the vast majority of strangeness only happens when you try to break the rules like touching a hex boundary when you're not allowed to cross. With the exception of a few niceties that happen at the beginning of every day and the ability to sense the intentions of your leaders, you could live in Erfworld for a long, long time without noticing that it's different from Stupid World.
Of course you'd have to stay away from casters when they are casting and creatures that don't exist in Stupid World, but all of the little details of life would be totally ordinary. Prick your finger and it bleeds, toss a teacup and it breaks, plant a shrub and it grows, and your hands get dirty if you use them for digging. If you eat without care then you can choke yourself and even die from it. Fighting is like real fighting, not like playing some RPG. No one would be surprised to learn that some units can swim and others can't, but it would be surprising if dying in water for a non-swimming unit felt any different than it would for a real person who didn't know how to swim. It would be just as surprising if a swimming unit didn't need to do some sort of stroke to get around, or if swimming didn't feel wet.
On top of that, every time we learn a new rule of Erfworld, Like Reality Unless Noted takes greater and greater effect, because there is one less unnoted difference between Erfworld and reality.
effataigus wrote:Nobody said "Yes, Jillian is actually using a giant sword because Erfworld" or "Yes Archons can fly without mounts because Erfworld" or anything about it being weird that marbits or megalos fly. These are all things that just are, and no special point has been made about them for our benefit.
There's no reason to make a special point of it when it is perfectly obvious already (all except the bit about marbits). If we see it happen, that's more than note enough. In fact, just seeing Jillian carrying a giant sword is enough to tell us that she can swing it, because by Like Reality Unless Noted we are naturally going to assume that she can swing her own sword. On the contrary, if someone merely says a thing, that is far less convincing than seeing it and that's why I don't really trust any Erfworlder when he talks about the Titans.
effataigus wrote:Parson might be in for a rude shock if he ever walks that road.
I agree that it is possible, but from what we've seen of Erfly life within the bounds of a single hex, it seems highly unlikely. He wasn't in for any shocks when he entered combat himself for the first time.
effataigus wrote:The question becomes how applicable is the model to the situation. In the case of predictamancy and fate (to which the rule was being applied), which is something that there is evidence for in Erfworld and scant evidence for on Earth, I'd argue that the "like Earth" rule is not a good choice for filling in blanks.
On the contrary, it is the only good choice. We know there are many rules of Erfworld that we don't know, and it's strangeness means none of us are expert on its inner workings, so we certainly shouldn't use Erfworld itself to fill in blanks in our knowledge of Erfworld. That would be like saying we know Erfworld as well as the author. On the other hand, the author comes from the real world and we share a whole world of context with him; is it so strange that he may expect us to fill in some blanks from the real world?
Oberon wrote:Did you assume that climbing stairs was a trivial act, just as it is in Stupidworld? If you did, were you surprised to learn that getting a promotion (garrison to field) makes stairs easier to climb?
Climbing stairs is not a trivial act in Stupidworld, but weren't we all surprised when the promotion made it easier to climb them? Parson would probably have done it long ago if he'd expected that. Even people who argue against Like Reality Unless Noted actually assume it most of the time when reading, even if they're not aware of it.
Salem wrote:I think fate should be based on erfknowledge entirely. But unknowns I think we can use Earth.
Fate is one of the biggest unknowns in Erfworld. All I suggest is that when we meet a big unknown like Fate, we should not invent a enormous foolamancer in the sky to explain it. Fate is not fiddling with the bracer because Fate is not a foolamancer until Fate is revealed to be a foolamancer. It's just an absurd leap for us to even guess that Fate might be a foolamancer when we really know nothing about Fate. I suggest that we just accept Fate as unknown and therefore apply Like Reality Unless Noted.
Salem wrote:Though as far as fate is concerned I think the concept as applied in fiction should not use earth as a basis at all. Since fate in most stories is more active than determinism.
Above all else, Erfworld is amazingly creative and original. That's one of the things that makes it an excellent story, so if we want to guess about mechanics that we've never seen we would be better off randomly speculating than assuming that it will be like it is in other stories. We certainly shouldn't confuse making references with copying.