Book 2 – Page 108

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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lipkin » Thu May 02, 2013 10:28 pm

I just realized that Antium = Auntie Em, in addition to his first name being Adam.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby ysath » Thu May 02, 2013 11:25 pm

Lipkin wrote:I just realized that Antium = Auntie Em, in addition to his first name being Adam.


you just realized wrong.

Adam Antium
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lipkin » Thu May 02, 2013 11:29 pm

ysath wrote:
Lipkin wrote:I just realized that Antium = Auntie Em, in addition to his first name being Adam.


you just realized wrong.

Adam Antium
Adamantium

No, I said in addition to his first name being Adam. I got the Adam Antium thing long ago. But Auntie Em is yet another connection to Wizard of Oz. If it's a coincidence, it's a good one. Things can be references to more than one thing.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Fri May 03, 2013 12:35 am

Shai_hulud wrote:Wondered about this too. Text says everyone died, but Sylvia survived her first inferno. Either she was lying, Parsons klog was wrong, or Jojo did something more than just stop her from dying after the fire.

Sylvia's first fire wasn't specified to be an inferno: "I got trapped in an enemy garrison [Unaroyal] blazed up. I was burned to a cinder", not "it was burned to a cinder".

For this fire, perhaps she believed that if the GK units got out of the burning garrison, they (and any Jetstone prisoners from the outer walls) would be able to rally and fight the fire well enough to keep it in the "uncontrolled fire" category while containing it to the garrison.

The update where Caesar lays on a Chocula roof while the garrison burns down demonstrates that it is possible to kill all the non-fire resistant units in a garrison without the fire spreading to the outer walls: "This night, the faces of the block houses flickered with the orange light of the still-burning Garrison." He had 3 bats, 3 fire-resistant firebirds, and ~200 prisoners to fight the fire with. We know the fire didn't spread to the outer walls during the night because Caesar would have burned up, having no move. It is not clear if the garrison fire eventually ended without spreading, or if he only fought the fire to a standstill and the city burned down after he marched the prisoners out the next day.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Aster Azul » Fri May 03, 2013 1:07 am

I'm really looking forward to the next page.

The forum is stumped!! Rob stumped you!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lipkin » Fri May 03, 2013 1:12 am

Aster Azul wrote:I'm really looking forward to the next page.

The forum is stumped!! Rob stumped you!

Time will tell. There are still ideas floating around.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri May 03, 2013 1:43 am

Chit Rule Railroad wrote:The update where Caesar lays on a Chocula roof while the garrison burns down demonstrates that it is possible to kill all the non-fire resistant units in a garrison without the fire spreading to the outer walls: "This night, the faces of the block houses flickered with the orange light of the still-burning Garrison." He had 3 bats, 3 fire-resistant firebirds, and ~200 prisoners to fight the fire with. We know the fire didn't spread to the outer walls during the night because Caesar would have burned up, having no move. It is not clear if the garrison fire eventually ended without spreading, or if he only fought the fire to a standstill and the city burned down after he marched the prisoners out the next day.

Ok yeah, forgot about the fire there. In my defense, I think Rob did say he rewrote the fire rules. So they might have changed enough since then for that to be no longer accurate. But yeah, unless he says as such, that is a good catch.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Doctor Foreman » Fri May 03, 2013 3:41 am

Aster Azul wrote:I'm really looking forward to the next page.

The forum is stumped!! Rob stumped you!

List of things not shot down by that last update:
- Demoting himself and flying away on the dwagon
- Stanley changing the capital
- Casting the scroll on basically anything
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Beeskee » Fri May 03, 2013 3:52 am

Doctor Foreman wrote:List of things not shot down by that last update:
- Demoting himself and flying away on the dwagon


Sorry, no move. Without move, inferno.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Cnor » Fri May 03, 2013 5:00 am

Beeskee wrote:
Doctor Foreman wrote:List of things not shot down by that last update:
- Demoting himself and flying away on the dwagon


Sorry, no move. Without move, inferno.


See above about other sections - it may be possible to flee from the Garrison to Airspace, as they now own the city.

Weirdness with trimancer links was also not shot down - we have no evidence at this point for anyone but Charlie being able to remote link, but I also haven't seen any evidence against it. Not saying it will happen, mind, but I don't think there's anything that says it can't.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby LTDave » Fri May 03, 2013 5:55 am

Why can't Parson order all the GK units in Spacerock to disband (or jump into the fire?), go Barbarian, and claim the capital?

Apart from, you know, it's unethical and he came here to save lives, blah blah blah. But if they're all going to cwoak anyway (inferno) and he's going to escape one way or another (scroll or portal), why not take the spite Charlie approach and go out swinging?

Or, alternative two - cast the spell and really really reallyconcentrate on an alternative desination, like Gobwin Knob. PLOT! He's back in the Tool's tower, and able to argue comprehensively for a Capital Swap, or at least for a new assault on Charlie by calling the remaining assets back from the Magic Kingdom.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Zeku » Fri May 03, 2013 7:04 am

Im not stumped, its just that most of my ideas are weird enough that there might be some eye rolling

The next thing I would attempt would be asking Maggie to connect to Charlie, and then cast the spell on him.
After that I'd just change my mind and join Charlie. Of course, my personality is completely different from Parson's.
Third thing I'd try is disband everything in Spacerock, make a new side, then go through the portal.

No matter what I wouldn't let myself die or take a risk on the scroll.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Doctor Foreman » Fri May 03, 2013 7:12 am

Beeskee wrote:
Doctor Foreman wrote:List of things not shot down by that last update:
- Demoting himself and flying away on the dwagon


Sorry, no move. Without move, inferno.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant flying above the fire or to another zone.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby kiyote » Fri May 03, 2013 8:38 am

What if the spell works like Judy Gale's shoes, and just sends him "home" to Gobwin Knob? Judy implied back in Inner Peace Ep 62 that she had tried to use the arkenshoes to get home before, but the shoes just dumped her back in Haffaton, because that was "her choice". She was able to go back to Kansas because she no longer wanted to be in Erfworld. Also, Judy says something very similar about the shoes that JoJo said about the scroll: "Shoes send you where you belong". And she attributed it to Charlie.

Also, the shoes were probably Charlie's inspiration for the spell, whatever it may be. Him and Gale were close.

“But they do one other thing, that I know of,” said Judy, “they can send you home.”

“You are home,” snapped Dame Branch. “This is where they sent you the last time you used them.”

“Yes, but...back then, there were people here I loved, people who loved me,” said the Overlady. She turned away from the Florist and looked at the metal golem, standing impassive and motionless behind her. She touched its cheek, looking sad. “I think that the ’Shoes send you where you belong, is what it is. That’s how the Wizard put it, at least. And he'd know. Charlie knows everything, doesn’t he?”

Jillian blinked at Charlie’s name. He was ‘the Wizard’ of Efbaum? All the weirdness was getting dizzying now. She could almost believe that this was all a flower dream, if it weren’t for her intense need for a flower. The one in Judy’s hair looked stale, but that one in Wanda’s...

“It was my choice to stay in Erfworld that day,” said Judy. “Not the Arkenshoes’. That’s what I think. And maybe it was the right thing for me then, or maybe I should have wished myself back to my world. But things are different now. I don’t belong here anymore. This isn’t home without my friends. And I don’t want to be here.”
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Arcana » Fri May 03, 2013 9:32 am

“What if dwagons could tunnel?” Book2 - text 21

Here is an idea of how Parson could use the red dwagons to protect himself from the fire, without croaking them or being eaten by one. He goes back to the courtyard where the dwagons are (I know this may not be possible). He has the dwagons dig a hole in the ground. Parson climbs in and the dwagon lies on top of the opening. In this way, Parson is protected by the red dwagons fire resistance. He just has to make sure he has enough air to breath until the fire dies out.

See the illustration on Book2 – Klog 1. What if Parson could fling himself out of the city on a catapult. He hangs in midair until his next turn. If he is high enough he should be safe from the fire. Maybe the dwagons can hover below him and keep the fire away with their wings. On his next turn, when he starts to fall he orders the dwagons to catch him. At least that will cushion his fall.

“The question, "how might we survive?" was the wrong one to ask. Parson had ignored it for, "how might we still win?" In answering the greater question, the lesser was also solved.” Book 2 – text 35
But maybe we are asking the wrong question. Instead of “How dose Parson survive the inferno?” we should ask, “How does Parson put out the fire?” I have several ideas. Can he flood the city with water? Is there a stream or fountain anywhere? Could he make it rain? There must be a castor somewhere that can control the weather. I’m not saying this is easy or even doable, but there must be an answer somewhere.

I’m also thinking about how Jack got out of the Magic Kingdom without any juice. He said, “So I can only conclude that I must have used a trick of some sort.” Book2 – page 99. If he got out without using juice, then anyone else could too, including Parson. If Parson can figure out the trick, then he might have a way out.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Kreistor » Fri May 03, 2013 10:02 am

drachefly wrote:If permission isn't enough, how do barbarian casters in the MK get work? Form an alliance, I guess?

Well, if they can do THAT, then Parson can do that.


We know that the MK Casters have an almost irrational fear of Parson. It seems fairly obvious that he could, as a Warlord, capture and Turn them.

We know from Jetstone's contract proposal to Wanda, that contracts can be broken. As here, Contract Law is not an absolute.

To get a Caster to come through, you would use a contract, but that can be violated and the Caster captured and Turned.

Consequently, it is unlikely that Casters would be sent through to an Allied Side without protection. Jillian's Turnamancer had all of her forces with her.

MK Casters probably make their Schmuckers the way they did when parson was Summoned. They provide a Scroll to cast the spell. The support program for that was 150K, which is far more than the cost of popping Warlords until you get a Caster. That is how they protect themselves from Capture. Make it cost so much to bring a Caster to your Capital that it's cheaper to Pop your own.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby (name here) » Fri May 03, 2013 10:06 am

LTDave wrote:Why can't Parson order all the GK units in Spacerock to disband (or jump into the fire?), go Barbarian, and claim the capital?

Apart from, you know, it's unethical and he came here to save lives, blah blah blah. But if they're all going to cwoak anyway (inferno) and he's going to escape one way or another (scroll or portal), why not take the spite Charlie approach and go out swinging?


He can't contact Maggie. No way to pass orders to units who can't hear him.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby frei » Fri May 03, 2013 10:43 am

Arcana wrote:“What if dwagons could tunnel?” Book2 - text 21

awesome find. In context it seems clear that no dragons exist that can tunnel, though... "They had fought epic engagements between unit types that didn't even exist."

I still think it's a smart hypothesis though, up there with the fugitive theory as one of the best options brainstormed so far.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby effataigus » Fri May 03, 2013 1:53 pm

(name here) wrote:
LTDave wrote:Why can't Parson order all the GK units in Spacerock to disband (or jump into the fire?), go Barbarian, and claim the capital?

Apart from, you know, it's unethical and he came here to save lives, blah blah blah. But if they're all going to cwoak anyway (inferno) and he's going to escape one way or another (scroll or portal), why not take the spite Charlie approach and go out swinging?


He can't contact Maggie. No way to pass orders to units who can't hear him.
Those units are in the same zone as him. We don't know they cannot hear him.

Also, natural thinkamancy allows orders to be given to units without language, and allows overlords the ability to issue orders remotely. It is possible also then that orders from warlords do not need to be heard.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby atalex » Fri May 03, 2013 2:00 pm

YRM_DM wrote:Name one thing on Erf that would motivate Stanley more than Charlie trying to prevent him from doing it?


This is a common misconception not supported by the facts. Stanley has never actually said anything that indicates he hates Charlie to that extent. Wanda told Parson that Stanley hated Charlie so much that he would never consider an alliance, but we now know that at that point Wanda was concealing vast amounts of information about Charlie (and everything else in her life) from Parson. I have always believed that Stanley doesn't even think about Charlie at all, that Charlie has antipathy towards Stanley only because of how Toolism has been bad for his business model, and that a Charlie/Wanda conspiracy probably played some roll in Stanley's ascension to Overlord.
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