Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

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Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby No one in particular » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:51 pm

Okay, so, all the casters are freaked out that there is now non-casters in the MK. But that's only now. After enough turns, they'll just be more neighbors. Solid members of the community even maybe, since they can never leave. They'll be regular fixtures for the island.

Assuming things don't all go down in a flaming pile of boop and everyone ends up dusted in a Turn or two, how do we think the two groups will interact? Influence each other?

I mean, there's nothing to do but discuss magic in the MK.
  • Will this be like a group of blue-collar workers suddenly setting up camp in a college teacher's lounge?
  • Will the soldiers want to join in on debates? Offer outside observation evidence for one side or another?
  • Will having to explain fundamentals to units completely unfamiliar with magic inspire revelations in some casters?
  • Will having non-casters make the casters band together, break down some of the classist hate for Carnies & Croakamancers?
  • Are they going to have to rezone the island into 9 wedges?
  • Can they fit in to the rand-ian economy, having no magic skills to sell?
In short, what I really want to know is... Are the soldiers going to be hanging out with the unemployed dollamancers all the time and getting HUGE wardrobes?
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby wih » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:59 pm

I wonder if this will drop the value of Dirtamancy in the MK, as there are more people more able and willing to do manual labour.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby Shai_hulud » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:31 am

I doubt the soldiers can magic up bricks from thin air.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby 0beron » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:23 pm

Well we still don't know whether the soldiers can leave. It's entirely possible that Decrypted fail to trigger the portal protections, or that the protections trigger in both directions, or that the protections even exist at all (some have speculated that non-casters are just shot on sight by patrols, rather than auto-disbanded by magic)
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby Whispri » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:36 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:I doubt the soldiers can magic up bricks from thin air.

I do recall Sizemore thinking something about the lack of city sites in the Magick Kingdom resulting in a reliance on muscle early in Book 2.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby Lamech » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:51 pm

I would suspect they get drafted into farming and such. Who knows maybe they can train into abilities like fabrication? Now there probably aren't enough of them to compete with a dirtamancer, but its not nothing. Perhaps they can model clothing?
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby raphfrk » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:57 pm

[quote="No one in particular"After enough turns, they'll just be more neighbors. Solid members of the community even maybe, since they can never leave. They'll be regular fixtures for the island.[/quote]

100% of non-casters are from a single side. If GK was wiped out, then presumably the commanders among them would switch to barbarian. Standard units would just de-pop.

Casters in the magic kingdom don't de-pop when a side is wiped out. The rules are that units freeze (friendly cities), de-pop (outside any city) or keep their stack (Heirs outside the city). It isn't clear what happens in allied cities. Presumably, those cities don't freeze, so the units become barbarian when their side ends.

The MK is explicitly not a city but isn't quite open ground, since casters are just supposed to be commanders.

I won't if a side can have more than 1 Heir, since Heirs can be popped. If so, would all be able to prevent de-popping.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby 0beron » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:10 pm

Casters switch to Barbarian because they're in the MK, not merely because they're commanders. In fact, Commanders who are anywhere else outside of cities always disband unless they're the Heir, including casters. So really it's the MK that protects Casters from disbanding, so it is possible that same protection will extend to the Decrypted, because this has never happened before so I doubt anyone knows. This of course is assuming that the Decrypted persist even if Wanda croaks, which may not be the case.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby Lilwik » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:10 pm

0beron wrote:Commanders who are anywhere else outside of cities always disband unless they're the Heir, including casters.
They might actually have to be the ruler. Every example we've seen so far was a ruler, not an heir.

0beron wrote:This of course is assuming that the Decrypted persist even if Wanda croaks, which may not be the case.
I doubt they would just de-pop. If Wanda were to die, I wouldn't be surprised if the decrypted would become ordinary uncroaked. Perhaps that was foreshadowed in Book 0, Episode 56: "When Maxwell perished, the scarecrow and the tin golem reverted to ordinary units. He hadn’t given them Life after all. They must have been tied somehow to his own Life."
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby 0beron » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:39 pm

Lilwik wrote:They might actually have to be the ruler. Every example we've seen so far was a ruler, not an heir.
That is what I meant. IMO, it's just kinda pointless to call them Ruler when they no longer rule anything, or only ruled it for a split second. Although I would be curious to see an instance where the side ends but both Ruler and Heir survive in the field, to see if the Heir disbands. (Jillian doesn't count, she was a Prisoner and thus sustained by Haffaton rather than FAQ).

As for Wanda and Decrypted, it's hard to say. The fanatical loyalty to her suggests that their existence is indeed tied to her, or you could interpret the Maxwell example in the reverse, that without Wanda the Decrypted wouldn't exist period. The golems were basically normal golems, just with something extra. Decrytped on the other hand are something totally different, the only similarity being they came from corpses.

But on the subject...not to nit-pick...but can we stop saying "de-pop"...? The correct term is "disband", it comes right from the comic...so call me OCD but we should refer to it as that, plus it runs off the tongue more nicely haha.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby drachefly » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:28 am

We don't know for sure that any unit outside the ruler's stack necessarily disbands upon losing the capital. It could be that a ruler has a special command to choose where each unit's upkeep is coming from, e.g. the treasury, or a commander's purse (and it's normally from the treasury to minimize the chance of fatal screwups). In this case, Wanda didn't have the time or presence-of-mind to reassign the (zero) upkeep of the bulk of her army to herself.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby No one in particular » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:27 pm

Ooh, here's another thought... how will the other Croakamancers in the MK react to the Decrypted?

  • I mean, from the overview of the island we saw back in Book 1, it looks like the 8 classes have the island split fairly evenly between then.
  • Naughtymancy is the class that contains Shockamancers, Croackamancers and Retconjurors.
  • There are no mortal Reconjurors, and it seems like most units are uncomfortable around or just don't like the other two disciplines.
So there's a big ol' wedge of the island, shared by only 2 disciplines instead of 3, and most people won't go out of their way to visit them.

  1. Are the Naughtymancers lonely? Would they let the Decrypted set up permanent barracks there?
  2. Would the croakamancers be excited by the Decrypted, and want to examine them?
  3. Or would they hate them and fear Wanda, they way the GMtTA fear Charlie?

On a total tangent, can I just say I think the Naughtymancy class is orange/brown? Looking back at the aerial shot of the place, it looks like the orange slice has the smallest clearing, which I think would make sense if it's only for 2 disciplines instead of 3.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby 0beron » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:51 pm

I actually think Naughtymancy is a very sparsely populated sector. We already know that casters are not equally represented in the MK, in part because they don't seem to pop in equal proportions in the first place.
Add in to that the following factors:
  • Some sides disband a Croakamancer the moment they pop.
  • Casters need a way to pay upkeep or barter for food. With so many sides morally opposed to them, Barbarian Croakamancers likely get few contracts...and with apparently zero useful skills for work within the MK, they wouldn't have anything of value to barter with. So for Croakamancers, moving to the MK may simply be a briefly delayed death sentence rather than the second chance it is for other casters.
  • Shockamancers are one of the most battle-oriented caster types, so they are more likely to be away from the capital if their side falls, or required to fight to the death unlike some casters who would flee when they see the end of the side is emminent.
  • Being so battle-focused, Shockamancers are probably well-liked by Warlords, and thus sought out. This would likely lead to many being captured and turned rather than fleeing, and those that do go barbarian in the MK would be quickly re-acquired.
Also recall that Wanda never seems to have had the chance to meet another Croakamancer when she visited the MK. Sure she was slightly pressed for time, but she did socialize some, so you'd think if others were present in any appreciable quantity, she'd find them.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby drachefly » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:42 pm

No one in particular wrote:On a total tangent, can I just say I think the Naughtymancy class is orange/brown? Looking back at the aerial shot of the place, it looks like the orange slice has the smallest clearing, which I think would make sense if it's only for 2 disciplines instead of 3.


Seems like lime is the smallest to me, followed by red, then gray, then brown.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby No one in particular » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:52 pm

drachefly wrote:
No one in particular wrote:On a total tangent, can I just say I think the Naughtymancy class is orange/brown? Looking back at the aerial shot of the place, it looks like the orange slice has the smallest clearing, which I think would make sense if it's only for 2 disciplines instead of 3.

Seems like lime is the smallest to me, followed by red, then gray, then brown.

Are you talking about the clearings in the the slices, or the slices themselves? Because the clearing in the red slice is huge compared to the brown one.

I admit though, I may have been discounting lime since it's farther away from the viewpoint in that shot. Distance, perspective, all that.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby mortissimus » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:19 pm

I am gonna go ahead and guess Jamie intended to draw them similar in size so no conclusions can be drawn from the angles meeting in the center.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby No one in particular » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:25 pm

Makingapoint.jpg
Makingapoint.jpg (58.36 KiB) Viewed 744 times
What? The center has nothing to do with anything. I'm talking about the clearings WITHIN the individual sections of the MK. Look at the pic, see how there's those dots in the middle of each slice? Those are what I'm talking about. I've circled the ones for the Brown & Red slice in the pic.

See how the one in the Brown slice is really close to the thing sticking up? While there is a clear gap between the thing sticking up and the edge of dot in the Red slice.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby 0beron » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:36 pm

No no, Mort was responding to the earlier point brought up, by yourself indirectly.
The discussion started talking about clearings, Drache disagreed, and you followed up by asking if Drache was instead thinking of the slices rather than clearings. Mort then jumped in with a comment referring to the slices, commenting that their sizes may not mean anything. So basically, Mort rebutted Drache's possible comment about the size of slices, before Drache even had a chance to confirm whether he was indeed talking about slices.
Make sense?
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby No one in particular » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:18 pm

0beron wrote:No no, Mort was responding to the earlier point brought up, by yourself indirectly.
The discussion started talking about clearings, Drache disagreed, and you followed up by asking if Drache was instead thinking of the slices rather than clearings. Mort then jumped in with a comment referring to the slices, commenting that their sizes may not mean anything. So basically, Mort rebutted Drache's possible comment about the size of slices, before Drache even had a chance to confirm whether he was indeed talking about slices.
Make sense?

Ah, yeah, that makes sense. You know how it is; it's the internet, one must ALWAYS be on the defensive. Mea culpa.
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Re: Soldiers in the MK - repercussions?

Postby drachefly » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:44 am

I was talking about the slices. The angles aren't equal, and the radii aren't equal.

As for the clearings, it's a tossup between lime and brown. Lime is visually smaller, but it's further away - it all depends on how far away we are, which determines how much perspective correction we need to apply. And of course how high the trees are, and whether the clearing is the low part or whether that's the building in the center... and then we get to the relative importance of the central clearing and building to that of the forest, for each of the disciplines. A ton of hippymancers might easily have a tiny building compared to a few dirtamancers.

All that is why I wanted to substitute the slices as a whole rather than talk about the clearings.
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