Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

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Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby Necrosis » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:59 pm

Were the Arkentools left behind by the titans as a way keeping erfworld in eternal war? I.e. They stuff up up large sides and help small ones.

The evidence

The Arken tools are clearly a power amplifier if you are a small side. If you are to big they seem to subtly curse you....

Once a side gets very big, it is likely you will eventually acquire an arkentool by conquest.

Arken tools are addictive, if you have one, you want more

Arkentools attune to some people, again making them a great power amplifier for some sides, but not others.

Erfworld purpose appears to be about perpetual warfare.


This means once a side gets very large and could potentially pacify the world and impose a peace...they acquire an arkentool and will soon fall. Inversely if an arkentool is in the hands of a small side (and attuned), they can take on and win against much larger neighbours. This combination means small sides are continuously becoming very powerful and beating on their larger neighbours while larger sides who should just be able steamroll all the opposition fall apart/become barbarians etc due to the malign influence of the arkentools....
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby 0beron » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:09 pm

Necrosis wrote:Arkentools are addictive, if you have one, you want more.

We don't have any evidence of this particular. Wanda is motivated by a prophecy, and she manipulated Stanley into his "quest" for them. Charlie on the other hand seems to have no interest in gaining more.

As for your general point, I think the mechanics already help ensure that. The point of diminishing returns on city's income is a pretty big factor to encourage warfare.
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby No one in particular » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:23 pm

On the one hand, the 'Pliers allow a side to bypass the diminishing returns issue (no upkeep, so no worries about how many units you can field)...
On the other hand, that also eliminates one of the biggest reasons for war in Erfworld. (no upkeep, so no need to constantly attack other sides for cash)

Also, it's not likely at all that a big enough side will come into possession of a 'Tool. There are only 4 known 'Tools in the entire world, and they're scattered pretty far and wide.

I'm more curious about how the 'Tools could be used to make a side self-sufficient.
  1. Pliers: no upkeep, as mentioned
  2. Hammer: maybe something to do with taming/harvesting? Parson was thinking about a trick like that back when the Food Fight began...
  3. Dish: all I can think of is making a side "too important to lose". If Charlie was the only reliable, long-distance communication provider in all of Erfworld, would that be valuable enough that no side would attack him because it would cripple everyone everywhere?
  4. Shoes: no idea. Maybe like the dish, only with package delivery?
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby 0beron » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:30 pm

No one in particular wrote:Pliers, Hammer, Dish, Shoes "package delivery"

What can Brown do for you? :p
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby No one in particular » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:39 pm

0beron wrote:
No one in particular wrote:Pliers, Hammer, Dish, Shoes "package delivery"

What can Brown do for you? :p

Brown 'Shoe and ten speeds of delivery! :D
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby drachefly » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:41 pm

No one in particular wrote:[*]Shoes: no idea. Maybe like the dish, only with package delivery?[/list]


WIth a shoe-attuned high-level CWL, he can go anywhere and put his full-strength bonus in whatever fight is needed. Rebellion becomes very tricky, since you have nearly zero lead time before you're facing the best tactician with the highest bonuses.
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby No one in particular » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:59 pm

drachefly wrote:
No one in particular wrote:
  • Shoes: no idea. Maybe like the dish, only with package delivery?

WIth a shoe-attuned high-level CWL, he can go anywhere and put his full-strength bonus in whatever fight is needed. Rebellion becomes very tricky, since you have nearly zero lead time before you're facing the best tactician with the highest bonuses.

Or, as we've seen with Stanley & Slately, whoever is "most handsome and dashing". :p

Remember, Transylvito is unusual for having a merit-based system of promotion, especially for a Royal side.

You're missing the point of my question, anyway. I was wondering how the 'Shoes could make it so you don't HAVE to fight anymore.
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby GWvsJohn » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:05 am

Maybe the key is all the tools arriving to one person. If you had the shoes AND the hammer, you could zip around all of Erfworld and harvest every wild Dwagon each , providing a huge amount of rations if harvested. Maybe the hammer can tame all sorts of beasts and Stanley is just unaware.
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby drachefly » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:39 am

No one in particular wrote:
drachefly wrote:
No one in particular wrote:
  • Shoes: no idea. Maybe like the dish, only with package delivery?

WIth a shoe-attuned high-level CWL, he can go anywhere and put his full-strength bonus in whatever fight is needed. Rebellion becomes very tricky, since you have nearly zero lead time before you're facing the best tactician with the highest bonuses.

Or, as we've seen with Stanley & Slately, whoever is "most handsome and dashing".

Well, if you use them incompetently, an arbitrarily broken artifact is useless. I named a use that would be worthy of it.

Even so, I expect that sides tend not to assign low-level CWLs.
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby No one in particular » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:12 am

drachefly wrote:Well, if you use them incompetently, an arbitrarily broken artifact is useless. I named a use that would be worthy of it.

Even so, I expect that sides tend not to assign low-level CWLs.

You're still missing the point that I was trying to think of non-violent ways for the 'Tools to support a side. Having a way to transport a high bonus all over your side sounds good if you're aggressive, or maybe if you've got a really good bonus and are under constant attack...

Also, level seems to be the other irrelevant criteria Sides seem to use for picking a CWL. Levels are gained through engaging in combat or long personal training (see: Artemis). Throwing yourself into the fight is a good way to demonstrate bravery, but not necessarily the choice of a keen tactical mind. "The fact that you, personally, survived everything you did surely means you're meant to lead!"

... wait, I think I've actually come up with a non-violent use for the shoes. Freezing time. Turn doesn't end until the side says it does (Epic-level turnamancy aside), but if you have infinite move and no wish to fight, you just never let your turn end. From what we've seen, Erfworlders only need to eat/heal/croak on a turn-by-turn basis, so if you don't end turn, you'll remain the same.

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It's always summer, they'll never get cold
They'll never get hungry, they'll never get old and gray
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby Shai_hulud » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:40 pm

No one in particular wrote:Anyone could see the road that they walk on is paved in gold
It's always summer, they'll never get cold
They'll never get hungry, they'll never get old and gray

Charlie the methadone man. Runs just as fast as he can!
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby drachefly » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:36 pm

No one in particular wrote:
drachefly wrote:Well, if you use them incompetently, an arbitrarily broken artifact is useless. I named a use that would be worthy of it.

Even so, I expect that sides tend not to assign low-level CWLs.

You're still missing the point that I was trying to think of non-violent ways for the 'Tools to support a side.


The peace can be kept in part by the general hopelessness of anyone else starting war. Pax Romana is still peace. You can't get the pliers to make someone upkeep-free without killing them first, so that's not exactly a peaceful solution.
Last edited by drachefly on Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:49 am

Is if they throw themselves off of towers or drink poison for religious reasons. No war needed, just a terrifying international death cult.
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby 0beron » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:38 pm

ummmmm I still wouldn't call that peaceful. The tower death is still violent/graphic, and death by poison has been described as looking "serene" by some, it's still croaking at the heart of things, and I wouldn't call that peaceful in a pure sense.
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby No one in particular » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:13 pm

drachefly wrote:The peace can be kept in part by the general hopelessness of anyone else starting war. Pax Romae is still peace. You can't get the pliers to make someone upkeep-free without killing them first, so that's not exactly a peaceful solution.

0beron wrote:ummmmm I still wouldn't call that peaceful. The tower death is still violent/graphic, and death by poison has been described as looking "serene" by some, it's still croaking at the heart of things, and I wouldn't call that peaceful in a pure sense.

Hm. May I redefine/expand my terms?

I was hoping for ideas that were not externally violent; which is to say, some strategy or policy of 'Tool use that does not rely on conflict with another Side to maintain/support the 'Tool user's Side. I admit, I was only thinking of violence in terms of warfare & Side to Side conflict; internal issues weren't being considered.

Alternately, if we don't want to go down the road of decryption being like a rite of passage for the Side ("after popping, every unit goes through a ceremony with a short sharp shock, and is reborn!"), there's an honestly pacifist, if slightly more ghoulish, way to get decrypted without croaking anyone.

Either follow other sides & scavenge their croaked from the battlefield, or put out the word and offer to PAY for their croaked. Every side on Erfworld is desperate for shmuckers; if you have no upkeep costs, you are making money and can afford to spread it around. Toss a few gems to everyone who turns their corpses over to you; you get a new unit and help keep still-living units from disbanding.
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:14 pm

Plus, accidental deaths like falling down the stairs might be a real thing in universe. Promising everyone that their loved ones can be returned to life in a paradise side without upkeep can be pretty catchy religious propaganda.
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:16 pm

....or the stupidity of Count Topatato :p
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:23 pm

Why would you bother with him though?
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Re: Do Arkentools=eternal warfare for erfworld?

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:27 pm

Hey, you said loved ones. SOMEBODY had to love him...even if it was only the aquabats :p
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