Mostly Pointless Speculation Thread

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Mostly Pointless Speculation Thread

Postby Kaed » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:03 pm

Speculation is often at least slightly pointless, but this one is extra so! Why? Because I'm speculating about Deletionism.

Some of the newer readers who have not looked a whole lot into the wiki may be unfamiliar with this discipline of Naughtymancy, but I will briefly explain why - it doesn't exist anymore. It was deleted (do ho ho) to make room for Retconjuration.

Mostly I was thinking, that with what we've seen in the recent Book 0, perhaps Deletionism would have been the reason people like Wanda came into being (you know, before it was retconjured) Bear with me here for a moment. From what we've heard from Clay, Luckamancy moves numbers around, rather than creating them or removing them. Perhaps that is how many other sorts of magic work.

I had this idea that perhaps Deletionism, from the name, forced the disband of other units. But, all those units still had a potential value and Fate, however small.. and it collects over time. Your easy disbandment victory incurs a debt that will build up. Eventually, during a long war, you are causing the enemy to pop stronger units who accomplish more and more. Theoretically, if you win the battle and end their side before that happens, you'll be just dandy - but then you have all these floating Numbers and potential lying around unused. Maybe they go elsewhere to help another sides, like water moving to uniformly fill a glass. And maybe, sometimes, they cluster together to create a unit whose value and destiny far exceeds anything a side would be able to pay for, like Wanda.

/ramble
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Re: Mostly Pointless Speculation Thread

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:46 pm

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Re: Mostly Pointless Speculation Thread

Postby Kaed » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:08 pm

MarbitChow wrote:(This post has been deleted.)


Oh, wise guy eh?? D:<
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Re: Mostly Pointless Speculation Thread

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:53 pm

I got the impression that the units that were going to pay for Wanda were going to pay in the future, not that they had already been paid.

The thing I can't figure out is how Rob avoided dividing by zero when he deleted Deletionism and retconjured Retconjuration.
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Re: Mostly Pointless Speculation Thread

Postby Kaed » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:24 pm

Maybe in Erfworld, Discipline/0 =/= Error.
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Re: Mostly Pointless Speculation Thread

Postby AnubianDragon » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:39 am

MarbitChow wrote:I got the impression that the units that were going to pay for Wanda were going to pay in the future, not that they had already been paid.

The thing I can't figure out is how Rob avoided dividing by zero when he deleted Deletionism and retconjured Retconjuration.

See, the way I see it, Retconjuration is simple another form of Deletionism. The only difference is that it is Deletionism that can act backwards on the time axis (not a magical axis, the parametric axis of space-time). In that sense, changing Deletionism to Retconjuration was unnecessary. Retconjuration is just a very advanced form of Deletionism, possibly augmented by an Arkentool. The Hammer, perhaps?


I like the thought that fate is a fluid of Erf that pools if displaced, though. Good stuff.
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Re: Mostly Pointless Speculation Thread

Postby drachefly » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:43 am

Akentool - the HAMMER? Retonjuration is accomplished by Rob Balder using his computer.
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Re: Mostly Pointless Speculation Thread

Postby AnubianDragon » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:08 pm

drachefly wrote:Arkentool - the HAMMER? Retonjuration is accomplished by Rob Balder using his computer.

I simply said the Hammer because Stanley is the only non-caster (as far as I can tell, since Charlie seems to be some kind of caster) that is attuned to an Arkentool. So whatever boost it provides is occluded by the fact that Stanley can't use it to its full potential. It doesn't have to be Retconjuration, I simply said Retconjuration because I wanted to make the point that Arkentools remove the restrictions on magic, and they could explain grandiose-grade retconjuration (like the deletion of Regeneration as a special).


But it seems like nobody can see the trees for the forest, as it were, since they're looking at the big picture instead of the local scope. Yes, Rob Balder has stated that Retconjuration is restricted to the Titans, mainly because of the enormous outcome of its first occurrence. This is a pity, because there's a lot of interesting ground that could be covered with an Erf caster talented in retconjuration.

  • An Erf retconjurer that is not a titan would be capable of the following:
    • Changing the details of unobserved phenomenon. Such as the state of Schrodinger's cat. In other words, anything that we haven't seen in comics or updates would be fair game for a retconjurer.
    • Remain unknown as a unit type, since they can never actually cast when being observed. They would likely pose as other casters to avoid being disbanded.
    • Alter events that have already occurred in previous turns, for an exponentially increasing amount of juice. The best Erf retconjurer might be able to adjust events at most three turns in the past. Again, restricted to unobserved phenomenon
    • Influence the type of unit a city pops by retroactively changing the variables as the unit pops.
    • Function as a deletionist, by adjusting variables to 'undo' the creation of items and units. Again, this is restricted to the past three turns and unobserved action. The retconjurer can delete items, but only off-screen.
    • Counteract unfavorable situations (such as an ambush) by going back and placing convenient countermeasures. Such countermeasures cannot involve Life, however (such as back-up troops), since that is not a component of naughtymancy and it would involve being observed.
  • A retconjurer would not be able to:
    • Change the specials of a unit type, for the following reasons:
      1. Changing specials involves Weirdomancy as well
      2. They would have to use enough juice to go back to the very first turn on Erf, when those unit types first began to pop. No Erf caster has enough juice to do so
    • Unpop any but the weakest units, due to the three turn restriction and observation restriction
    • Retcon their own death, or any of their own features for that matter
  • Erfworld could benefit from including a retconjurer in the following ways:
    • Parson would stand as the only being on Erf capable of witnessing a retconjurer in action, since he is an outside observer. Wouldn't it be interesting if he caught one in the act? And blackmailed him into working for Gobwin Knob?
    • Making retconjuration a viable specialty, even in secret, maintains the established symmetry of magic
    • Maintaining the established symmetry of magic. It's so important it needs to be listed twice
    • Have interesting backlashes,such as 'deleted' items and units suddenly reappearing at inopportune moments. Either that, or their 'fate' pooling elsewhere, as Kaed suggested in the first post.
    • Explain Charlie?
    • Make more askew real-world references, particularly to Schrodinger's cat
    • Honestly, I really just want to see the first one.


So... yeah. That's all the argument I've got.
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