Learning and Training in Erfworld

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Learning and Training in Erfworld

Postby doran » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:29 pm

So I was reading the comments in the Summer Updates 20 reactions thread, about how royals may indeed be the best to rule.
This got me thinking - why exactly? Sure royals level faster, and when recognised as such by other Royals have power, but
as in Jillian's case, it is often hard to tell. Then I realised - it's the knowledge they are popped with!. Royals are the only ones
to have 'training' in tact, diplomacy, and etiquette, and thus can negotiate easily with other sides.

But if other units had training after popping, they could also learn to rule. This is stopped by two factors, first Rulers don't
want rebellion, and secondly Erfworld is in a constant state of War. So most people don't have time to train since they're
constantly fighting.

The two main exceptions to these are Sizemore and Wanda, who both have spent long turns in the base, so Units are indeed capable of learning.
Unlike a Earth Army, we haven't yet seen any examples of Units training - operating seige towers, practicing archery, or taking command etc,
when not in use.

Since Parson is currently demoted, it'll be interesting to see if he uses this to say, pop an archery unit, and have them teach some infantry how to shoot.
The question is would this show up in their stats as an Archery ability?
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We're the people sitting around discussing our pet theories based on nomenclature, citing references, discussing ad nauseum while Parson finds out how it works.
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Re: Learning and Training in Erfworld

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:44 pm

Parenthetically, I'm going to guess that it would take an exceedingly long time for an infantry unit to be even half as good as a natural-popped archer.
They could not possibly win. Every man knew this with certainty, and lo it was glorious.
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Re: Learning and Training in Erfworld

Postby Unclever title » Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:35 pm

DevilDan wrote:Parenthetically, I'm going to guess that it would take an exceedingly long time for an infantry unit to be even half as good as a natural-popped archer.
So long as they have nothing better to do, which is pretty unlikely I suppose, they might as well. Even with the limited success of an infantryman's archery it might prove useful in special cases like if the enemy simply cannot be hit outside of a ranged attack.


doran wrote:But if other units had training after popping, they could also learn to rule.
The main question is whether intelligence is dependent on unit type or is based as a unique trait for individual characters.

Bogroll was stupid but are all twolls dumb? Even if they are was Bogroll exceptionally stupid? Mildly stupid? Or actually smart by twoll standards? We haven't met any other twolls so it's hard to say.

I'd say casters in general are a fair bet to be quite intelligent considering the conversations that Parson has had with them but then again we've had few examples and only Sizemore had much a sizable amount of knowledge outside of his discipline. In fact I'd wager that Stanley's incompetence can be mostly explained by the lack of knowledge outside of his original unit type, Piker (if he even changed types at all).

King Saline most likely taught him some things but I doubt that he trained him enough by the time he was killed. And Stanley doesn't strike me as the best of students, he seems to need to see firsthand the practical value of something before he agrees to learn it properly such as Parson's Intelligence.

Not to mention that Stanley, Wanda, Sizemore, and Maggie seem geared (at least initially) to see a failed attempt as a defeat rather than something to learn from for the future. Ansom seemed geared that way too until he was decrypted (though that might be more due to being "Popped again").

Heh, come to think of it, Parson "popped" (or PLOT-ted) with the general knowledge on how to break games and in TBFGK that's essentially what he was trying to do in order to win, rather than play by the rules as they were intended he sought out exceptions and side manipulations, he was just two steps away from outright cheating, no wonder Stanley didn't like how Parson won the battle.

I could just imagine players around a game board:
"Oh come on! That's not fair!"
"It's not against the rules."
"But it's cheap!"
"So?"
Except when you've killed hundreds or thousands of people, then it's a little bit different.

Edit: Note that by "intelligence" I mean nothing more than "capacity to learn".
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Re: Learning and Training in Erfworld

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:19 pm

Unclever title wrote:King Saline most likely taught him some things but I doubt that he trained him enough by the time he was killed. And Stanley doesn't strike me as the best of students, he seems to need to see firsthand the practical value of something before he agrees to learn it properly such as Parson's Intelligence.


Saline wasn't necessarily wrong to make Stanley his chief warlord. After all, Stanley, properly guided and supervised, would likely be a quite capable warlord. He's certainly effective on the front lines and must have a high level. Saline made Stanley an heir (at that point, anyway) for sentimental reasons; I'm sure Saline didn't expect to die anytime soon (yes, it's a pain in the boop not knowing whether units die of old age...); certainly, he didn't expect to die in violence without being preceded by his protégé.

Unclever title wrote:Not to mention that Stanley, Wanda, Sizemore, and Maggie seem geared (at least initially) to see a failed attempt as a defeat rather than something to learn from for the future. Ansom seemed geared that way too until he was decrypted (though that might be more due to being "Popped again").


In Erf, casters very rarely fight on the front lines, and I'm sure that they're rarely consulted in general contexts. They're treated more as machines or as technicians/specialists, but I think it's a safe bet that they're not encouraged to have opinions. The royals and nobles are the ones that do the thinking, and they're definitely the ones that do the planning and leading.

Unclever title wrote:"But it's cheap!"
"So?"


As Stanley said, a little more "honor" would have been preferable. (In very many ways, the "iconoclast"/"rebel" Stanley is reactionary or conservative. In fact, he makes me think of Joan of Arc, a fundamentalist who figures out how to win wars.)
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